Dr James, 8s:

What's up everyone? Another episode of the Dentists Who Invest podcast. We talk about finance a lot on the Dentists Who Invest podcast. Obviously that is the idea, and what I also like to give credence to is the business side of dentistry, because it doesn't get enough flipping air time, and that's why we've went with a super sexy title that we're going to be able to deliver on, of course, on this podcast how we go from lessons learned, going from zero practice to nine prac and I'm a student as well here, because I have, of course, never run a dental practice, I haven't even got the one, never mind nine. So I'm eagerly anticipating what we are all going to learn today on this podcast with our guest, Dr Ahmed. Ahmed, I've always had trouble pronouncing your last name, is it Giaziri, Giaziri?

Dr Ahmed, 55s:

Yea, you're right, first time Giaziri.

Dr James, 56s:

Giaziri, Giaziri. Hey, okay, I should have just stuck with that. I should have stuck to my guns with Giaziri. There we go, Ahmed, how are you today?

Dr Ahmed, 1m 3s:

Very good. How are you, James?

Dr James, 1m 4s:

I'm amazing man, I'm full of beans. I'm really excited for this podcast. Ahmed, you're, you're, you're out and about on facebook, so you might have a few, uh people who recognize you in the audience on this podcast today. Maybe so, but for those that don't, if we had a little bit of a bio and an introduction, I think that might be a nice place to begin yeah, um, parents are libyan.

Dr Ahmed, 1m 29s:

Um, they came to england in the 80s. Um. I grew up in london. Um never really knew what I wanted to do in life. Um had a quite a strict upbringing. The highlight of my life as a kid was watching match of the day on a saturday and um, before match of the day on a Saturday and before match of the day, a lot of your older kind of group members know that casualty was on before match of the day, and so when teachers asked me what I wanted to do when I left school I realised I wasn't going to make it as a professional footballer. So I said I wanted to be a paramedic. Um, I was getting quite good grades. So they said why don't you just do medicine? And I said, okay, I'll do medicine. Um, didn't get into medicine. Uh, and it still annoys me too today. Uh and um, the advice I was given was don't even put dentistry as a second choice in my UCAS form because it might show people I'm not fully committed to medicine. And so I didn't even get into dentistry in England and I my dad's secretary. She was Irish and she said why don't you apply in the Republic of Ireland? Um, so I applied for medicine and dentistry in Ireland and got an offer for dentistry in Trinity College in Dublin oh wow, no less man.

Dr James, 3m 3s:

That's the.

Dr Ahmed, 3m 4s:

That's the pretty prestigious right in Ireland yeah, I, I had no clue about ireland or trinity, because I I started doing dentistry, reluctant, reluctantly, and doing trinity, went to trinity and um, yeah, I used to go out in, uh, bars and clubs and people ask me, you know where do I study? I say trinity and they're all like you know going, wow, you posh so and so and then just walk off like and I didn't realize how, what a prestigious university it was, I didn't realize it was seen as the oxbridge of ireland. But yeah, I I really didn't appreciate how lucky I was and I was just kind of there, just a little bit down in the dumps, that I wasn't doing medicine and um, yeah, it's. It's kind of been kind of the story of my life. I just kind of accidentally got into practices and business without having a strategy. And you know, I do admire people who are ambitious and have a strategy. But my motivation seems to be, and my motivation seems to be I kind of find myself in situations a little bit over my head and I just work hard just to make the best of a situation that I found myself in, and it's not a bad strategy, because you do do a lot of growing when you do that to yourself. And you bite off just a little bit more than you can chew, right? Yeah, I, I think so. I mean, I think there are people who just are naturally motivated. They get up at five in the morning and you know they really attack life. Um, I, I just find myself in fortunate situations able to invest or, you know, do a difficult course, and I just motivate myself to just be able to complete the course or try and complete any problem that I find myself in. I've always found that I used to be the worst of the best in school or university. They always put me in the top set in maths or science and I used to be surrounded by geniuses who found it very easy, and it was always my kind of ambition just to stay with those guys and that's where my work ethic came hey, man, I mean like there's no.

Dr James, 5m 40s:

You know what. It's interesting, because those sorts of circumstances can do that to you, and what I've always found is that if you do find something unbelievably easy, well, it can make you one of the things, one of the results of that is it can make you complacent, which is, generally speaking, a trait which is not that conducive to pushing and being successful in life in the long run. So, actually, maybe there were some valuable lessons in there which sounds like there were, and, of course, you had the brainpower. You were up there like punching with the big boys, you know what I mean but you actually came out with a really cool work ethic as well, which is amazing, and that, of course, has led to what you've since achieved. Whenever you left university, acquiring zero well, your first practice going from zero practices to one practice to nine practices which is really really, really flipping cool, and there's going to be a lot of wisdom in your head with regards to that journey. That can only ever be learned through directly experiencing that, and that's why the listener is going to benefit an absolute ton today from this stuff. So, listen, thank you for sharing your story, and then you told me off camera before we jumped on. Got your first practice relatively late, at 32 yeah, that's right.

Dr Ahmed, 6m 51s:

I mean I, I worked. I came back to london after graduation um worked two years. The new nhs contract came in in 2006. I didn't get a good offer, so I went traveling with a friend, worked in australia for a few years and, to be honest, I was loving life in Australia as an associate and had no ambition to own a practice. The weather was good, the money was good, at 5 pm you just wanted to go out to the beach or meet friends, um, so, yeah, I think ambition for me is almost weather dependent. Um, when I'm living in a in a nice climate, I don't really want to work hard. But around 2012, 13 um. You know my father and other family were trying to trying to, emotionally trying to dragged me back to the UK and you know I did relent and came back. My father's quite a successful businessman himself Libya is an oil-rich country and you know he was involved in working for oil companies selling to Shell BP oil companies, um selling to shell bp. But he he helped me with the deposit of my first practice. So I do appreciate I was very, very fortunate um in in that I had that family help um, but he convinced me to come back and 2013, there wasn't many private jobs for associates, so I did buy a private practice because, in effect, I had to buy myself a private job. And yeah, just saw a practice Big plan list and I did like the idea of having a secure monthly income from a from a DEM plan practice. And at that stage I had my implant MSC. I thought I could add to this practice and started teaching myself orthodontics just taught myself everything that the practice wasn't really doing much of, with the security that is actually very profitable from day one. So even if I couldn't add to it, I should be OK. And then the I was enjoying life actually running one practice. As very naive, I think you know these Facebook groups like like your group, James. They weren't really there back in 2013. I didn't really know what I was doing and one malicious complaint led to a CQC inspection in 2015, which I failed, and I was actually on holiday when the inspection happened. It was an unannounced inspection and got a text message from my receptionist we didn't have a practice manager. That was another example of my naivety, saying the CQC have just been in and I was in Tenerife at the time and I was like what happened. She goes. I'll tell you when you come back. And I was just like that usually means it's bad the good news never waits until you come back.

Dr James, 10m 20s:

Only ever bad news anyway.

Dr Ahmed, 10m 22s:

I know. So I flew back to Gatwick on Friday like a midday and, uh, sure enough, the cqc inspector rang me as soon as I landed and said, um, could we meet you at your practice at 4 pm? And and I was like, yeah, yeah, no problem, she goes. I recommend you cancel any patients after 4 pm. So I had associates working there at the time. I thought why cancel patients after 4pm? She goes, we're going to give you a notice of decision to close. And then she said, after you've been physically handed that notice of decision, it is illegal for you to see any patients. Oh shit, it was such a formal, formal and cold phone call that I was really panicking. And I don't know if it's a good, whenever is a good time to have your practice closed, but I guarantee you four o'clock on a Friday is not a great time because everyone is shut. The BDA helpline is kind of shuts at five. I tried to bring the lawyer that helped me acquire the practice um. To be fair, she answered but she didn't know. She's never come across this um. But basically it was a malicious complaint. Someone was trying to commit insurance fraud. He had a lot of decay in his mouth. He said he walked into a door I don't know why he didn't even pick up the red flag Wanted me to fill out the insurance form, saying that all his decayed teeth were broken from walking into a door, into a door. When I refused, he threatened to go to the GDC, which he did, saying that I hurt him and I was using dirty instruments. Now the GDC, to be fair, threw out the claim. But because he just mentioned dirty instruments, they are legally obliged to then notify the CQC. The CQC did an unannounced inspection whilst I was renovating the practice and that's why I was on holiday, because there was builders going to be in. And you know the builders, they were like we still had, we still had the practice running, but the builders were a bit messy. And the cqc came in and said you know, this is not safe and, um, because I had no manager, we weren't doing the right audits, we weren't well led, which they were correct about. But I think it could have been handled a bit more kind of, you know, diplomatically and you know less, less severe than than closing the practice. And um, yeah, I, it was a big den plan practice and I spoke to the ex-principal and he said just ring, ring den plan and literally den plan arrived there and then, like they rang me that evening and they literally just took the keys of my practice off me and said we're going to run it for the next three weeks. We're going to negotiate with the cqc, our inspectors are going to come in and inspect your practice. We're going to train your staff. They were doing press releases for me. Their pr team were just sending um what is that?

Dr James, 13m 45s:

even a thing that this, that, that can, they can do that.

Dr Ahmed, 13m 48s:

I didn't. I didn't even know about it, but they just saw how, how naive and and and clueless I was. Um, because the CQC closed my practice at four. And then at half four we have a very small NHS contract. Half four NHS England called me saying they really knew this was happening. The secrecy tipped them off. They said we've heard your practice is being closed. We've written to all your NHS patients, we've got registered with us, but just in case there's one or two people we don't have the correct address details. For we think it's best we just do a press release to the local radio station and the local newspaper. I was like, is that, is that really necessary? Do we really need to publicize this? And you know, I I was in shock, like, and I was like it's probably one of the few times I've had tears in my eyes. And then, yeah, I called Denplan. They said, listen, don't worry about it, we will know what to do, our PR team will take care of it. But yeah, that was a big, big lesson learned.

Dr James, 15m 0s:

Oh, my goodness, Wow. Well listen, thank you for being so candid, sharing that. That is wow, fascinating.

Dr Ahmed, 15m 8s:

There we are and it was a scary moment because I was renovating the practice. So I put all my money into the renovations and um, they cqc, said we'll re-inspect you in four weeks. And I said I I don't have the cash reserves to be closed for four weeks. And so then plan negotiated. They come back after literally about 14 days and, to be fair to them, plan I mean I don't want to plug them, plan here but they did really help me but they even lent me money just to, just to keep me going until the re-inspection.

Dr James, 15m 44s:

Um, so yeah, you kind of know who your friends are in in these situations wow, okay, well, I mean, that is a flipping crazy story and let's, as I say, thank you for sharing. I didn't I didn't know den plan have a contingency plan for these sorts of things? So obviously they do, obviously this sort of stuff happens and they've got a protocol in place, which is what you benefited from on that occasion.

Dr Ahmed, 16m 9s:

So that was your first practice and you bought your first practice in 20 2013 yeah 2013, and that was the same year, that story so they this inspection happened just over a year of owning it, so I bought it October 2013. The inspection happened in January 2015. So yeah, just about 14, 15 months into practice ownership. The previous principal didn't have a manager. I thought I could run it without a manager and I learned a very, very tough lesson that you really need someone managing the practice for you if you're going to be full-time clinical, which I was there, we are okay, cool, so basically bought the first practice.

Dr James, 16m 57s:

All of this kicked off. We're just at the point. This is almost like wow, where do we go from here? The only way is up, effectively, practice reopened and presumably things picked up and things started to tick along and run a little bit more smoothly. How did you get your hunger back for dentistry and, being a principal at that stage, to go on and buy eight more practices?

Dr Ahmed, 17m 22s:

practices. I mean, again, it's a constant theme in my life and, you know, serendipity had a lot to do with it. Um, when you buy a practice, your, your email address is still registered with the dental agents and I I got a listing of a practice in Preston in 2016, which was really, really profitable, and it was an NHS practice and, you know, it had my eyes opened up a bit and I was like you know, how can an NHS practice be this profitable? And it did have a big plan list as well. But it was all up and it was four hours away in Preston and I just thought, listen, I just want to go visit it just to see really how they do it, more than anything. So, yeah, one Saturday morning I drove up four hours to Preston and Preston is where I did my implant MSC. So it wasn't unknown to me and I turned up and it's a very basic practice. They had no website, they had no computers, it was all pen and paper. This is 2016, so it's not decades ago. They did no computers, it was all pen and paper. This is 2016, so it's not decades ago. They did no marketing, they did no cosmetic dentistry, they did no implants, no orthodontics, really about 50% profit margin principle-led practice doing none of the you know sexy dentistry and they were making more than my private practice and we had similar turnovers, you know, approaching a million, and it kind of annoyed me. They were making more money than me doing NHS and plan and it was almost out of anger that I wanted to buy it because they were more successful than me. I was like I've got to have this practice and I wasn't even thinking about how am I going to run it. It was the other side of the country and yeah, I think in the back of the mind looking back, there was a bit of you know, if the CQC closed the a practice again, it would be good if I had a second income because you know I I had almost zero money when they closed my first practice. I mean, I didn't. Yes, I've got family to fall back on, but I I realized that you probably do need a second income in dentistry. There's so many threats out there, not only the GDC, you've got HMRC to worry about. There's a lot of blue and blue reporting. There's a lot of litigation. Your back can go in dentistry. Some illness can happen. I realised early on you do probably need to think about a second income in dentistry because of of there are a lot of threats to to you and your career. So there was that in the back of my mind. Maybe I do need, you know, a second source of income. So I I offered full asking price for this practice. Was was rejected because you know, I was seen as an investor at that stage and then I forgot about it. And then the people that were buying a practice their finance fell through. So the owners came back to me said, are you still interested? And yeah, I bought it October 2016. Yeah, I bought it october 2016. Again, it didn't have, you know, a manager. So you know I I had to then interview a manager to run it for me. Um, the associates were quite, quite further on in their careers. Um, the principal's wife she was a dentist. She retired. Another associate he was probably in his late 50s. He was quite annoyed that I bought the practice having a young new owner. And he said to me I'm partly responsible for a lot of the goodwill of this practice. I'm partly responsible for a lot of the goodwill of this practice. If you want me to stay, I want £140,000, £70,000 for the first year, £70,000 in my second year. Or I'm walking. So I just told him you can walk, and so he just left. And a third associate she retired. So three dentists retired within two months of me buying a practice. So it was quite full on in that first couple of months. I finally had to find three associates and a manager. But yeah, I was quite lucky. I kept the one principal stayed on, the husband stayed on and he helped me recruit. I didn't know Preston word of mouth. He kind of said we'll find you some associates wow, what a story.

Dr James, 22m 31s:

So that was. Let me do some math in my head got your first practice at 32, 20, and that was in 2012, right is what you said? 2013, 2013, sorry. And then second practice, 2016. So you were 30. You were 32.

Dr Ahmed, 22m 45s:

First practice, 35 ish yeah, so and yeah again. It's almost like my kind of plan in life has been purely accidental. I mean, I wanted to be a doctor in the first place but I then found I had a second practice, which, you know, I didn't really need. If I'm honest, I was quite happy with my income with one practice. If I'm honest, I was, you know, quite happy, my income with one practice. Um, so in 2016, I had income from a second practice which was just kind of building up. I didn't really need, um, you know, timing is everything. I mean, interest rates were, you know, zero percent back then and, um, I wasn't really looking to invest in more practices. But I was speaking to a friend who worked in banking and he was quite amazed at the low interest rates banks were offering dentists and dental practice owners, even for goodwill lending. I mean, goodwill is a non-tangible asset, it's an asset you can't touch. But banks know that even when a dental practice changes hands, usually the clients still go to that same practice because they associate um a lot of familiarity with the building of the practice. Uh, the associate dentist, they know the receptionist, they know the managers, they know the receptionist, they know the managers, they know the nurses. So even when a practice changes hands they calculate the patient attrition is usually less than 5%. So banks do lend quite a lot of money on goodwill and I didn't really appreciate that. In other industries this is not always the case, and you know, when interest rates are below inflation you are technically borrowing free money, which I didn't really fully appreciate at the time.

Dr James, 24m 53s:

By the way, I'm still here yes, really appreciate the lovely placement yeah, I tried not to distract you, it just went entirely. Great for those who are listening to the recording of this podcast and audio okay there we are, I'm back. I'm back. There we are. So, yeah, uh, that was, that's something unique to dentistry that maybe us dentists don't always appreciate as much as we should yeah, exactly, I mean, I I'm not.

Dr Ahmed, 25m 17s:

I mean I'm quite risk averse and quite, you know, conservative, I'm not really into borrowing lots of money. But you know, when friends in banking were saying, you know, you're borrowing at two and a half percent, um, inflation at that time was two and a half three percent they were just saying, listen, you're borrowing free money, um, so you'd be stupid not to take it. But you know, money was accruing in the second practice and, yeah, I the only thing I really knew was dentistry and property. I did have a keen interest in property and when I was going on property forums there was a lot of kind of people using risky strategies to buy buildings with zero deposit and banks were actually offering us zero deposit on the buildings as long as the practice was profitable. So I was actually kind of realized how lucky I was. I was actually not only buying a practice, I was buying a building as an asset as well, with zero deposit. So what I started doing was I started putting the buildings in a separate limited company and the practice were going in another limited company, because eventually, you know, if I sell the practices, I'd like to keep the buildings and live off hopefully more passive income than dentistry.

Dr James, 26m 50s:

Yeah, it's a good strategy, that, and as well as that. Another common thing is where people put them in a pension, I believe, like a sip or something along those lines, uh, but even a limited company. I've actually never thought about that before, like, oh, I guess you could put them in a separate limited company as well.

Dr Ahmed, 27m 5s:

So there we go yeah, yeah, no, you can put them in sips. But I think with 40 000 a year I know that's increased recently um maximum you can put into a sip. That um, yeah, if you buy a building for five or two hundred thousand, you have to use five years worth of pension allowance to put it into a sip. So you know, that would have slowed me down a bit. But, yeah, there's, there's a lot of strategies and, yeah, do speak to accountants and financial advisors. Um, I'm starting to do that now and reverse engineer my strategy. But you know, if I was forward thinking, I would probably, you know, had to sit from day one well, do you know what that actually?

Dr James, 27m 48s:

uh brings me on to something that I'd like to ask in a little bit, uh, further on, uh down this podcast. Uh, you know, during the proceedings of this podcast, and that is what are the biggest lessons that you learned or things that you would do differently, because that stuff is gold dust, especially for people who are going on a similar journey, for a similar journey to yourself. But just before we do that, so you've just given us a really good understanding of the journey, so to speak, as to your first practice, second practice and how things continued from then. And if you just bring us right up to this present day how things look nine practices, the way things are right now, and if you look back on what you've done and the you know everything that you've achieved. Are you happy? Do you want more? Is there ever a stop button or how does that? How does it feel? How does it feel for you?

Dr Ahmed, 28m 40s:

yeah, I mean, I mean, I, I, I don't know whether I was driven by ego or or you know, or or I really had that deep ambition to grow a micro corporate, but it did grow organically. I was, you know, money accumulated in the practice accounts I didn't know much about. You know stocks and shares. You know I only rejoined your group after COVID. I knew a little bit about property, but I was acquiring property alongside my practices. So I just decided that, you know, once the funds built up, I'd look to add maybe one practice a year. And that's essentially what I did and focused on marketing. I mean, I, I did have a kind of very, um, straightforward strategy when I bought a practice. I did like practices with repeat source of incomes, whether it is nhs practices of a high uda value or a big plan practice. Um, I like that security of the repeat income. And then, you know, use my marketing team to build up on the private income. And one, one practice did grow to a size is actually the preston one, where I needed to open a second location and that was my first squat and that happened in 2021, 2022. Um, squats are stressful, um, I know bobby appears in your podcast, he does. And yeah, you know, if you're going to work in the practice in and you're really motivated, it is possible to do a successful squat. But you know, I remember going to a talk actually in australia about buying a practice or setting up a squat and it's useful to look at the practice income in different installments. So the first hundred thousand practice generates because of the high fixed costs, maybe only five, ten percent of that is profit, pure profit. And then the second um tranche, the hundred thousand to two hundred thousand tranche, maybe twenty, ten to twenty percent of that is pure profit because your fixed costs more or less stay the same and if you build on a turnover you're just increasing some of your variable costs, which are not usually that much, from $200,000 to $300,000,. Maybe that tranche, 20% to 30% of it, is profit. So when you buy in an existing practice, because your fixed costs don't really change that much, whatever you add to it from marketing and private income, a bigger portion of that is profit than when you're starting a squat. And I do admire people who do set up squats because it does take a lot of work and it's my personal belief if I do half the work of setting up a squat, I can probably double or turn over an existing good practice. But I think other lessons I've learned is just, obviously, have an infrastructure. After about four practices you do need an operations manager. Luckily, one of my good managers who decided to retire early, she stayed on as my PA operations manager. You need someone just helping the managers. Um, most managers not all of them are nurses or receptionists that got promoted, so they they're probably not very experienced at running a big business. So it'd be good if you had a manager with not only dental experience but business experience to help them. And yeah, just just uh, think about, I think, like any investment, if you put down a deposit, how are you going to get that deposit back? Um, how long is it going to take you? If I, if I invest in a practice, if I can get my deposit back in two, three years, then I know I can grow further. And the only thing stopping me growing more is I'm still the only director of all nine practices and you know, unless I really invest into a head office, it's going to be difficult for me to grow more at this stage and you know what.

Dr James, 33m 36s:

That's actually something I'd love to ask you about how do you delegate things, even even even where you are right now, before you get the head office? How is it possible to manage those nine dental practices with, let me see, seven times 2468 hours in a week? I'm curious to know about that. But just before we talk about that, I was just wondering you mentioned fixed costs and variable costs there and I feel a lot of dentists know fixed costs and variable costs and that. How can we say nomenclature that account accountants use, but maybe not as many as they should, you know, maybe not as many as there should be understand that stuff. So I'm just curious how curious, how, how, how, how refined does one's understanding of reading a balance sheet and the numbers need to be to expand at the rate that you've expanded at? Do they just need to basically be able to understand you know P&L to a basic level, or do they really need a refined understanding of how to read a balance sheet, in your opinion?

Dr Ahmed, 34m 37s:

I mean, I don't think you you need a? Um massive knowledge about this. You you do need to speak to an accountant, um, and when you're buying a practice, um, and you've got the accounts there in black and white, it's very easy for you to know the, the fixed costs, the, the rent, or um the electricity costs, the rates, and you know the variable costs and the staff costs. The variable costs are obviously just your dental materials and and your lab bills, um, but yeah, it it is. It is really useful and again it's easy to do this with an existing practice to know how many days the practice is actually open. And then you divide, you know the, the fixed costs, by the number of days of trading, so you know your running costs per day and then you can break it down by how many surgeries you are. So you know how much it costs to run a surgery per day. And if you really wanted to know how much it runs per hour, then that's quite useful to know and it's very useful to know to share with the associates so they know what they need to gross, just so that the principal is not losing money and you know when you have those conversations with associates when they haven't made that target and you tell them it's actually. It'd be actually more profitable for me to have given you 50 pounds and told you not to turn up today than you turning up today because what you generated didn't even cover you know the overheads. It is a big wake-up call for some associates and I don't think those discussions I had enough between principals and associates.

Dr James, 36m 27s:

I see and listen. That's very valuable what you just said, because I feel like sometimes people how can we say? Fixate on understanding the balance sheet to a huge level before they make progress in their journey whenever it comes to buying dental practices. So to hear it from yourself where it carries some gravitas and it allows dentists to understand what truly is necessary. Let's pull it back to what I was saying just a second ago in terms of delegation, the question that we discussed before. We talked about the numbers thing we mentioned just a second ago. So I was just curious. Whenever it comes to delegation I know that you told me off camera you're still in clinic three days a week yeah yeah, fair play to you, and you know your time outside of clinic. How does that look? Are you constantly firefighting, so to speak, or do you have some time to yourself? Have you managed to get somebody in who can run that for you? I know you said you had an ops manager. How does that look?

Dr Ahmed, 37m 23s:

Yeah, I mean my ops manager. She looks after the other managers. I don't have a clinical director and that's probably the next step is to have someone as a clinical director. I will need to because of the geographical spread of the practices and so, yes, I am not firefighting, but I've got many hats. I'm doing dentistry just so my knowledge stays relevant, because a lot of my new associates they need some sort of mentorship. So, yeah, yeah, my work-life balance is completely out of sync. I do take 12 weeks off a year, which sounds great, but I'm on my laptop literally every day, even when I'm in Spain or things like that. It's a sacrifice I'm willing to make at the moment because I do hope to uh, young and hopefully get that time back. But you know you can't take things for granted. But, yeah, I work three days and then I have two admin days. Really, ideally I need to drop one more clinical day and have three admin days and, mixed in with those admin days, I do like to mentor dentists where I I can just sit with them as their assistant and just help them with. You know certain procedures and that really helps with retention and when you're recruiting, if you, if you can help. You know younger dentists, then they do appreciate that. Um, you know there is a lot of kind of trust issues in dentistry. You know people, you know trying to retain money off associates, um, and then if the associate complains then it leads to a gdc complaint. If you can be there for associates and help them and let them know you, you know you're on their side and share your experiences not only in dentistry and business, because most of us graduating have very little business knowledge then they do tend to stick around. So I am fairly happy with my retention and you know I've got good associates working for me, which has helped me grow myself. Awesome man. Thank you for that. And do you know what've got good associates?

Dr James, 39m 47s:

working for me, which has helped me grow myself. Awesome man, thank you for that. And do you know what? In your experience and going on this journey that we talked about just a second ago I'm just curious. You know now, from the vantage point that you're presently sat at right now, presently looking back over this, uh, yeah, as I say, this voyage of going from being a 32 year old getting your first practice cqc, uh, doing what they did, reopening again, and then, all of a sudden, you're acquiring more and more and more to get to where you are today. If you could do anything differently, or if you had some advice for that 32 year old version of yourself, what might it be?

Dr Ahmed, 40m 25s:

I, you know I think we're speaking about this off air I kind of bit off more than I can chew, um, and I, I think, just get advice of people that have walked that path before. Um, um, I do. Now, you know, I'm in a whatsapp group group of other dentists that own multiple sites and it's good having that advice on hand, but I probably didn't take enough advice at the beginning. So, and yeah, I kind of bit off more than I can chew and I'll be quite honest with myself, more than I can chew, and I'll be quite honest with myself, I think I know my dad could probably help me out financially if I if I ever got stuck. But not not everyone has that safety net. So, yeah, I, I was quite fortunate. But if you are going to buy more than one practice, you know, just reach out to people like myself or I can put you in touch with other people who have done it. And you know, most of us are happy to share our experiences. You know we, you know we're not, we're not competing with everyone.

Dr James, 41m 33s:

We've all kind of, you know, made, made our wealth and you know we're just, you know, happy to share and collaborate with other people you know, that's the thing that is one of the biggest misconceptions I think that people have about business that they think that it's really cutthroat and everybody's out for themselves. Actually, 90% of people who have done well just want to share what they've learned on their journey, because that knowledge is scarce and the only real way you can learn how to do that stuff is to just go and experience it. There's no book, there's no textbook, there's no YouTube video, there's no course, so to speak. You just have to do it. And there's a big part, there's a there's this big sense of compassion and willingness to give back from people who have been on that voyage and people who've experienced that stuff, and they just don't want others to struggle in the same way that they did. So, yeah, very much resonate with that, and that's something that I've observed too, too, and I feel like a lot of people out there don't realize that. Why would you struggle on your own when you can just ask you get the right person that can accelerate your own journey, and they enjoy giving you that information too yeah, I mean 100, I mean there's, there's loads of us out there.

Dr Ahmed, 42m 37s:

you know I I don't, I'm not selling a course, I'm not, I don't teach. But you know if and I've learned this through property If you just say to someone that's reached where you want to go and said you know, do you mind if I buy you coffee or buy you dinner, just so I can pick your brain and just be honest about it, nine times out of 10, they said, yeah, no problem, you know.

Dr James, 43m 0s:

They want the dinner man you know, in a nice restaurant. Absolutely, it's a win-win. It's a win-win. It's a win-win. Listen, Ahmed, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and knowledge today. And let's say, somebody did want to reach out to you off the back of this podcast. Where are they best off? Finding you out of curiosity?

Dr Ahmed, 43m 19s:

Yeah, so I'm in your group. I'll message you my direct email and contact number anyway, but you know, just look for Ahmed Giaziri. There's only one of us, I believe.

Dr James, 43m 33s:

Got you, got you, got you. Okay, thank you so much, mate. Well, listen, as I say, thank you so much for generously giving up your time, because I know you're flipping busy for the benefit of the audience. Thank you so much for this amazing podcast today and I'm already looking forward to when we have you back on again at some stage to get a catch-up, uh, with regards to the next leg of your journey. However that looks, that'll be interesting and fun whenever that occurs, and I thank you so much. We'll see each other very soon thanks, James.