Dr James, 1s:

What is up everyone? Another episode of Dentists Who Invest podcast. This is an episode we have hitherto never, ever, ever even addressed anywhere near this subject subject matter on the Dentists Who Invest podcast, which is cool. So this is fresh territory, so to speak. And this is on the topic of moving money internationally, which pops up occasionally from time to time on the Dentists Who Invest facebook group. So it'll be fun to do a podcast addressing specifically that. And I have sat opposite me a gentleman who does this day in, day out. His name is Mr Harrison Sharp and he represents Privalgo, is the company that you're from, and they specialize in moving money internationally. Harrison, how are you?

Harrison, 40s:

Very well. Thank you, James. It's a bit of sun here in London today, so we're all happy.

Dr James, 46s:

Lovely, lovely, sun's out, gun's out, so to speak. Then, oh, you're in the office, from what I can tell from the background, but you've got a rooftop terrace in your office.

Harrison, 53s:

We do Right, okay.

Dr James, 54s:

It'll be up there at some stage, I'm sure. Well, Harrison, obviously this is your first episode on the Dentists Who Invest podcast, which is really cool, so what it might be nice to do is a little bit of an intro or a bio about yourself, and then we can kick things off from there.

Harrison, 1m 8s:

Yeah, of course. So I've been with Privalgo now coming up to two years, originally, when I left education, worked in hospitality, food and beverage and restaurants, hotels. That took me over to the south of France where I worked in clubs, did some nightlife there and working on yachts and in the marine industry. So I got to meet a lot of private clients and family officers and that really sort of lit a flame which got me into the financial services sector. And so, coming coming back to london, you know, saw great opportunity of a, of a growing fintech with Privalgo and, um yeah, never looked back since sounds fun man, sounds like an exciting life and you know what?

Dr James, 1m 58s:

there's a probably a quick tangent in there, or a quick aside about just getting out and exploring, because the people that you meet, how it shifts your mindset and how you see the world. You're like wow, there's so much that's possible that I didn't realize until I started talking to people and being in these circles and I imagine, on flipping yachts and things along those lines. You meet a lot of people from a lot of walks of life and a lot of people who have achieved a lot whenever it comes to the financial side of things. Not that that's the be all and end all, of course, but well, it can help in certain areas. It can help us have more freedom and what have you, which is the whole message of the Dentists Who Invest podcast.

Harrison, 2m 36s:

So I bet that was really eye-opening absolutely, um, yeah, as you say, just meeting different people from backgrounds, getting to understand their views, learning what people would do for careers, was so interesting. Yeah, that experience was really good for me to uncover. And actually, you know, before I was in this industry and thing I thought FX just meant for, sort of video editing, you know, something we all used to do or play around with in sort of school, and then learning more about it. You know, getting into the financial sector, which you know London is the hub internationally for finance and exporting services abroad, and that really helped me combine multiple passions that I had at that time, which is being being customer centric I really like to entertain, really understand, um, how I can help someone and then also using uh, using daily, you know, overcoming challenges. I'm I'm very analytical, uh, I like to be quite process driven, and so this was just part and parcel, you know, stepping into this role.

Dr James, 3m 49s:

Good stuff, okay, cool. Well, let's pull this conversation back to the subject matter at hand, which is, of course, moving money internationally, and where this actually came from. What inspired me to reach out to people that I know connections, so to speak to ask if there was anybody that they knew that was reputable and knew what they're doing whenever it comes to moving money across borders from all over the world. That's when your name come up, harris. The reason that I was inspired to do that was, every so often on the Dentists Who Invest Facebook group, people will ask questions and they'll say I've got money in the UAE and I want to know how I can move it to the uk and also be efficient whenever I do that and obviously, naturally not contravene any rules that I shouldn't contravene, of course, that goes without saying. But listen, there's, there's, there's, there's ways of doing it which are more efficient than others. Is that fair to say? Well, we can be smart?

Harrison, 4m 39s:

yeah, that there isn't. You know, as we we step into this age now of online AI, it's information overload really, and I think, as we were talking before we jumped on here, the traditional banking model that everyone knew and just assumed is the only way to do things. You had your brick and mortar high street banks brick and mortar high street banks and since the financial crisis of 2008, a lot of the risk appetite for banks in the UK has shifted from that and so that has affected a lot of non-residents within the UK. And, bringing back on, you've got this introduction of purely digital banks, got this introduction of purely digital banks. You know digital wallets that you can now have the likes of Revolut, Monzo, where they're essentially these banks on your mobile phone, and a lot of you know that comes doesn't come without its pitfalls, but where we've tried to take and move forward in this industry within the fintech space is really combining the two. So combining the traditional sort of private bank, bespoke, solution-driven sort of boutique mixed with a pure fintech one that has technology driving it, and that's where we fit in. So the perfect combination between the both and you know what.

Dr James, 6m 5s:

Let's come on to that very shortly. Here is where I feel a lot of the audience is at whenever it comes to this stuff. I feel like, whilst we know that it is impossible, it is possible sorry, it is possible to be able to transfer money internationally. I feel like, for context, it might be helpful to describe how that process typically looks. So presumably I'm going to say somebody has some money, it's in a bank account in the UAE, they want to get it to the UK. How would that be done usually or normally?

Harrison, 6m 35s:

So first thing we'd start with is is this are you looking to move these funds personally, so in your name, or is this held within a company or possibly a trust structure or an asset? So that is the two things that any client would come to me and we'd determine. Both are possible. They both have some challenges, I suppose. For the context of this, let's say it was under a company. So we have a company in the UAE. You've either invested in property or you own an asset, or you're running that company. So you're importing, exporting or running a business and you actually live in the UK, let's say, or you have relatives in the UK and you want to subtract a dividend from that business. Obviously you could have a local UAE bank account and then you're looking to send those funds to the UK. First thing that comes up is you've got an FX conversion. You know foreign currency is constantly in tangent to one another. So the big major currencies US dollar, euros and the UK. Over the last 18 months they've been very volatile. We've entered into a high interest environment, so people are moving away from stock markets and looking at putting their funds in these currencies, which has driven up the price of the market. Fortunately for this individual in UAE that's pegged against the US dollar, so we would just be looking at a dollar to sterling transaction and you can do that through a bank. That's absolutely possible. They will, however, look to charge you anywhere between one and 3% of the transaction volume and it's likely that when those funds are delivered to the UK you're going to have to prove quite a substantial amount of KYC whether that's an invoice where those funds are going to. There has to be a clear, clear line and a clear story with that. And coming on to that the funds, if they are in Dubai, they may not be accessible. The bank in Dubai that are holding those funds may not let you send them outside. Funds may not let you send them outside. So someone like Privalgo, where we can help onboard that client, we would offer them a multi-currency account. So that's essentially an account that you can have and you can send and receive up to 140 currencies in over 180 countries worldwide. So the funds would be in Dubai, they would be sent to us in one of our dirham or dollar accounts in Dubai and then the funds will then be sent out to your chosen counterparty within the UK under the Privalgo's segregated accounts and that's seamless, so it just helps with that transaction, rather than going from multiple banks talking with each other. That's where we help, because we've got all of that covered under that model.

Dr James, 9m 55s:

Isn't the traditional bank-to-bank route, mediated via something called SWIFT? Have I got that right?

Harrison, 10m 1s:

That's correct. Yeah, so the SWIFT network is the messaging system between banks. We are a member of the SWIFT network and that's essentially just an international payment. One real downfall from that is it does take time and, as things go, payments get lost, get blocked, get screened and delayed. And if you're working with a very large bank, who would you really speak to about that? No one really has a personal bank manager these days and, as most people would do, this is their own funds. It's, you know, possibly a retirement or saving, or they're looking to purchase an asset. It's a big deal for people to put their trust in it. So you know, working with someone like us, we're in the office. I've got instant contact to my settlements team and and our finance team so we can one. We can track that payment because it's been instructed by ourselves. We know all of the intermediary banks and all of the counterparties that we will be moving the funds through um. So that time time saving piece is a real big element for us. Um gives a lot of our clients peace of mind that they know exactly um you, exactly how it's going to be carried out.

Dr James, 11m 24s:

And yeah, that actually stacks up with what I know about Swift in that it takes a lot of time because, from what I know, and you'll know more than me, it was set up in the 70s and they haven't really upgraded a lot of their SOPs since that era is what I'm told. Apparently they still do a lot of stuff on paper and what have you. So I'm told I don't know, I'm not an expert, but you're looking at maybe like two, three weeks, something along those lines, and very high fees.

Harrison, 11m 51s:

It depends really does depend on where the money is sent from, where it's routed from. Yeah, it's all a big unknown. It's a big web of bank communications and, yeah, you're exactly right, it stems from the 70s, back when even so the interesting story the currency pair between sterling and dollar, its nickname within the industry is called cable, and that comes from a transatlantic copper cable that was laid between London, or the UK, to New York, which is now why that currency pair is known as cable. They used to actually do the trades over the phone, on the wire, which is where it comes from. So, yeah, it really hasn't changed a big deal since then. Without the help of businesses like us, emis, who are breaking through into this space, we're really trying to elevate the efficiency of it all, which, at the end of the day, we're used to being able to accomplish an awful lot just on our phones, you know, within 30 seconds, a minute of our time, with the digital age coming into real fruition now, and time zones are ever dependent on that. Having a banking provider that you can work with that gives you all of those capabilities is purely the best.

Dr James, 13m 23s:

So certainly from a speed perspective, there's a big advantage there. And what about fees advantage as well? I know that you said typically it's one to 3% of its bank to bank. What should we be looking at?

Harrison, 13m 36s:

So our fee structure is purely bespoke. We don't charge for any fees to open an account with us. It's all dependent on the volume of transactions or if there's an fx conversion that you're looking to achieve. One of our real core values is to be transparent with all of our clients in terms of what fees they can expect to be charged for that, and we try and incorporate that within an exchange rate. If there was one. We are still able to make same currency payments for clients if they want to utilize other solutions that we may offer. But yes, we're certainly looking to be more competitive. Again, we are still remain a privately owned and founded business. You know we're not owned by a private equity firm who's demanding certain revenue targets and, you know, looking to grow the business X percent by next quarter. So we're at liberty to sort of determine where we see fit working on individual clients.

Dr James, 14m 47s:

Definitely Interesting, and you used some terminology just a second ago. There's a little bit of a distinction in there. You've got a traditional bank and then you've got an EMI I believe was the acronym. If you could share a little bit more on that, that would be an interesting thing to know, actually, I believe, for the audience, because that's what you guys are. You're in EMI right.

Harrison, 15m 6s:

Yes, so EMI is an electronic money institution. We are regulated and authorized by the FCA. We actually, just towards the end of last year, we won two top fintech awards one of them was the best international payments provider, other one was the international payments and forex company of the year and we've consistently worked hard to to try and provide best possible you know practice and service for our clients. I suppose best way for me to explain how we've got there is where we started, and we always tried to prioritize our client needs. We felt that they were being overlooked by a lot of the larger banks and so often we've tried to take the longer and the tougher road to support them. So, for instance, we were never interested in using a white label technology for our own client platform or internal systems, which is where you can work with an existing provider. The white label terminology means you're essentially piggybacking on their license and regulation and offering the clients that you work with just the same product as them. So we we could have chosen that route. It would have mean we've been a lot more operational, much quicker, but that wasn't the path we wanted to take. Instead, we built all of our own technology ourselves, which gave us total control of the tools that our clients use for their FX and payments, meaning we can be very flexible with client feedback and still trying to find agile solutions for them. Flexible with client feedback and still trying to find agile solutions for them and that meant establishing strong relationships with banks and international payment providers to offer clients faster, more accurate payments and extending the list of currencies and actual networks that we can work with. So the terminology electronic money institution means that all of the funds that we can work with. So the terminology electronic money institution means that all of the funds that we hold on behalf of clients are in ring-fenced and segregated accounts with tier one UK banks, so nothing is held under the Privalgo Limited umbrella. So if, for one example, if Privalgo Limited umbrella, so if, for one example, if Privalgo Limited just no longer existed, then all of the client funds held will be returned to that individual, so they are safeguarded with tier one UK banks, which is as part of our regulation. It's very hard to actually acquire that, so the team have done an amazing job um to get to that stage and to constantly exceed the expectations vinderbar.

Dr James, 17m 58s:

Well, listen, thank you so much for sharing. I actually have a little bit of an anecdote of a situation that arose in my life which caused me it was a little bit of a hindrance for me to get money across borders, and it became quite a protracted affair for about two months or so. So it'd be interesting to get your take on it. I don't want to name any names with the banks involved, naturally, but let's just say that I was in the UAE, I was in Dubai, and I was in this hotel, right, and I stayed there for like a month and then basically the the hotel, they wanted to refund me the deposit. So I was refunded the deposit. It went to my business account with my what was that? What was the terminology? That for banks that just have mobile apps? What's that? What's that name? What's the name for those banks? Um, there's a name for it, right?

Harrison, 18m 48s:

the banks that just have a mobile app, or I don't know what you know, as in they're not like high street ones, they just purely exist online. Oh, right, so just a digital.

Dr James, 18m 56s:

I would just say yeah, just yeah yeah, yeah, so digital, digital banking, digital bank, okay, so it was one of. It was a big digital bank that doesn't have any uh, how can you say high street premises? Let's just say a really common one, really common one, really common for people who have business accounts as well. So basically, the money went there and then they just sent me this message and they were like we can't accept it. It's from the uae, purely because it was from the uae, no other reason, no other justification. Then they said we've sent it back. And then what happened was nobody knew where the money was for like a month and a half, because because I, they said they sent it back. I called the hotel and they were like we haven't received anything. And I was like I'm pretty sure they have, they're just want to keep the money, basically. And then I I almost just let it go, because I was like I'm just not getting anywhere here and it was becoming more trouble than it was worth really. And then eventually, literally a month and a half later, the hotel called me and said oh, we just got your money back today, so it'd be interesting to hear your take on what happened there. And then, and then just to add, there's like a little, just about 20 seconds more. Basically, I had this other account that I use, uh, for crypto investing, uh, so it's a bank, that is how can we say? It tolerates transactions to crypto exchanges, which is actually few and far between nowadays. So, basically what I did, I went, I put two and two together and I was like, right, well, this bank accepts Durham's and they are very similar to the original bank that they used, except they seem to be a bit more tolerant of money coming in internationally. So I sent it across to them and it was just there in a day it was there so fast.

Harrison, 20m 35s:

I can't imagine it. Um, let's take, let's take your first example, then so likely yeah, you've got. Um, you know, this is in a business account and was? Was the booking made under the business or was it you individually?

Dr James, 20m 49s:

that is a really good question, I believe. Well, it was. Yeah, actually, yeah, it was made under the business, or was it you individually? That is a really good question, I believe. Well, it was, yeah, actually, yeah, it was made under the business, yeah.

Harrison, 20m 55s:

Made under the business. Okay, so really the hotel? Yeah, they should be sending that money to. You. Know, whether that be a named account for the business or just a holding account for that client, really there's nothing to tie you with the hotel, so there's no actual policy receipt. So in our example, let's say you did have an account with Valgo in the name of the business and you're looking to receive funds from that hotel. The money would have landed within one of our segregated client accounts. Um, we'd have known it was for you because it would have been in the name of the business. Um, and before we would have received and accepted those funds, we would have simply contacted you either phone, email, and just said are you expecting these funds? You know, can you, can you prove that you made the booking at the hotel really? Um, and and we'd identified the source from that. And this really goes to show the pure digital banking platforms that we know and use. When they work, they work really well. All of us use these sorts of accounts. When we go abroad and you want to buy a sandwich in the local currency, they're fantastic. But for large scale transactions, whether that be personally or through a company, there really are quite a few pitfalls with them. I assume you had no communication with them, no one spoke to you on the phone or you couldn't really get hold of anyone.

Dr James, 22m 26s:

It was probably just a chat box or just a switchboard uh, interestingly, I did get through to someone and the first person there you could just tell that it blindsided them. It was just something that they never really come across. So they said they'd look into it and get back to me, and then didn't hear anything. And then the second person, he was a lot more proactive about it and he was like hey, I have to file for this report and then you'll get an answer in a week or two. And then by the time the report came through, the money had already went back to the hotel. So it kind of sorted itself out. That was what happened.

Harrison, 23m 1s:

Yeah, the scenario, yeah, but for that payment to take, I mean, six weeks is ludicrous Really. That payment should take a maximum of you know a couple of hours. To be honest, to be straight into account, yeah, allocated in that one. Um, just just remind me of the, the second point you made with.

Dr James, 23m 21s:

The second point was just that I used a different digital bank and it worked it was like instant.

Harrison, 23m 27s:

Yeah, this again it's um, you know, down to risk appetite, some profiles of lots of banking partners and and they always uh sort of contract and then and then go back out and uh, really you never know if, um, one jurisdiction um, let's say, for example, there's so much geopolitical tension now, um, it's quite difficult to really understand. If you've got a great process in mind, let's say, you do have multiple businesses around the world. You're paying out salaries to individuals who are possibly remote workers. You've got that set up, all working really well. If something was to happen and one of those banks decided that they didn't want to receive funds from the UAE anymore, or you weren't allowed to send them back to the UK because you're no longer a resident within the UK, it's always good to have an alternative solution. A redundancy risk is one of the key things that we offer clients. Which is safe at mind is one of the key things that we offer clients. Which is safe of mind Because we work with around 15 banks now. We always make sure that we have multiple providers ready for every client. So, let's say, one bank that we've linked your business account with, they don't like the jurisdiction of the payments that you're looking to send or receive from, or we're just having issues with that, we will use another provider with you and that's seamless. That's something we manage on the back end, so you would never know. But when you're direct with a digital bank, you don't have the option, unfortunately. So, yeah, you have to wait six weeks for a refund or a missed payment, but luckily for you, this was just a hotel room refund. If this was business critical, you had a dividend you were waiting for. Or you're selling an asset and you've got a window that you want to then invest, let's say, into your ISA or something like that then it can be a real headache.

Dr James, 25m 35s:

I would have been losing sleep. It took so long and there was no communication whatsoever and I genuinely thought it was lost at that stage and then I was like, okay, well, this is not ideal. I prefer this not to be the case. I guess I just have to chop this down to experience. Thankfully it came through, but, like I say, I was definitely in the dark and there was no one to speak to either. No one seemed to really know where this money was. It was just, yeah, somewhere yeah, yeah, but no, anyway, just an interesting anecdote and maybe people in the audience can relate to that. Is it anywhere in the world that you just point blank can't accept money from? Uh?

Harrison, 26m 9s:

well, the elephant in the room is is russia currently? Um, yeah, I don't think. Uh, you know, if I could get money, uh, in and out of russia, then, uh, probably wouldn't be sitting here right now and probably wouldn't be able to. Yeah, you know, probably wouldn't be able to work in london. Um, no, there's. You know, we do follow instruction from FCA guidance and all of the banking counterparties that we work with, but, as I said, the unique situation we're in as an EMI allows us to pivot between working with multiple providers, you know, depending on the jurisdiction and the risk appetite of the client that we want to work with, which is why, yeah, one of the things we can do is open, you know, a UK business account for non-residents, which, as I said, has been quite overlooked since the banking crisis, and it's just one of the benefits that we offer to multiple clients. You know, business-driven owners. That's something that we can, we can do for them I didn't even know that was possible right there.

Dr James, 27m 16s:

I presume yeah, so have, but it's so. Maybe no one residents, but they have a visa or something like that, do they?

Harrison, 27m 22s:

no, no. So if you're, if you want to open a uk business account I mean you can make and receive payments, you know, faster and easier within the uk um then yeah, that that's something we can help and it helps a business also scale internationally, um, and quite quickly, you know one of the, you have all of your finances in one place, you know it's a business account, as you consolidate them all on our online platform. So it's easy to manage, monitor reports and you have the ability built in to look at some hedging options. So some banks offer foreign exchange and we allow our clients to hedge against currency fluctuations, which ultimately can protect business from a volatile exchange. As we said, if there's an exchange rate right now and you're looking to forecast possibly receiving money or sending money back out in the next 12, 24 months, we can look up products that can service that Food for thought.

Dr James, 28m 28s:

Well, listen, Harrison, you've been very generous with your knowledge and time today. Should anybody listening on the Dentists Who Invest podcast want to reach out to yourself, how are they best off getting in touch with you?

Harrison, 28m 38s:

anyway. Linkedin email phone yeah. However, however, they feel is most appropriate fair enough.

Dr James, 28m 45s:

Whatever you fancy, then, Harrison, yeah, I'll go there, everybody sharing his knowledge and wisdom today in the Dentists Who Invest podcast. Harrison, this won't be the last time that you want, for sure, because I bet we could pick any one of those things that we talked about today and probably have a 30 40 minute podcast on those specific areas, which would be fun. So the door is open on that one. That will happen at some stage, I have zero doubt, but in the meantime, thank you so much once more for coming on today and we'll speak to each other. Super soon.

Harrison, 29m 11s:

Thank you, James, look forward.