Dr James, 1s:

biohacking wealth. Biohacking is like the word of the moment, these days at least, so that social media tells me from all the posts that I see out there about it. And we're here to decipher what that means today and also deconstruct why it's relevant to your wealth journey. And guess what? This is actually an unprecedented episode of the Dentists Who invest podcast, because we have not one, not two, but three guests on all at once. So hopefully I'm going to get a word in edgewise. I'm sure it'll be fine, I'm sure we'll all play nicely together, but this is uncharted territory and we're just going to have to figure out how to choreograph this as we go along. I think we'll be okay. So, by way of introduction, I have three guests a returning face, Mr Nin-Gandhi Patel, Dr Alka Patel and Dr Rana Al-Falaki we we've got three dentists on here. No, actually I've got my math all wrong. We've got two dentists on here, one former, one over here, one present, one in. Dr Rana Nin is, of course, not a dentist. Nin is a dental business coach, and Dr Alka is a real doctor. Cough, cough, she is a GP, is that right, alka?

Dr Alka, 1m 7s:

Yes, I've come with a gp background, but I'm a longevity and lifestyle doctor, so we'll have to get into what that even means, right?

Dr James, 1m 11s:

yeah, wonderful. Well, let's, let's have some fun today. Do you know what? What a good way to kick off. Actually. Alka, like that suggestion. It might be nice to have a little bit of a 60 second bio or intro to everybody, and then we'll get into biohacking wealth. How does that sound? Great let's do it. You're on your treadmill right now. Are you walking?

Dr Alka, 1m 28s:

walking. Yeah, I've seen those I've seen those.

Dr James, 1m 30s:

Actually I've seen, uh, people on reels and they're like I can get my steps in and talk at the same time, so that that's is. That. Is that biohacking right there?

Dr Alka, 1m 37s:

I'm pretty sure that is five happening here right on this podcast a live demo.

Dr James, 1m 42s:

I love that. I love, love that. And you said you were a doctor earlier. GP.

Dr Alka, 1m 49s:

I came with a background as a GP. Sadly, that meant I turned into a drug dealer, really, because I was just got a headache, have a drug, got high blood pressure, have a drug, got depression, have a drug and realized that I did not go to medical school to be a drug pusher. So I turned from drug pusher to, let's say, life healer, by giving you back control of your health. And that's what biohacking is. It's like taking absolute control of your health, which then leads into taking control of everything else your wealth, your success, how you live, how you function, how you connect all of that. So that is me. Now I'm in the longevity and lifestyle space really, and lifestyle space really, determined to help people to live their absolute longest lives. When I talk about longest lives, I mean a million hour life. That's what I'm all about living a million hour life.

Dr James, 2m 30s:

Wow, love that, okay, cool. And then, well, here's the thing there's more and more awareness these days of big pharma and various conspiracy theories about how we are encouraged or doctors can be encouraged, potentially to be a little prescribed happy, whereas if we see things from a wider perspective, maybe it's not always necessary, and it sounds like you've been on that journey as well, Dr alka. We're going to get into that in just a minute. Then should we do a re-intro for yourself yeah, why not?

Nin-Gandhi, 2m 56s:

great to see you again, buddy? Um, I need to. I think like we're always swapping uh skincare regimes. Right, I need to pick up on what you're doing because it's good to see you again, mate.

Dr James, 3m 6s:

SPS 50, SPF 50 sunscreen. I've been doing that since 27. So I'd like to think at 33, six years of that it's hopefully worked a little bit. I have been getting a few compliments these days, so I'm going to keep rolling with that. I'm pretty happy.

Nin-Gandhi, 3m 29s:

That's good, that's good. No, it's good to see you, buddy, and thanks for this opportunity again. But yeah, my name is Nin-Gandhi Patel. I'm a sales and business coach consultant and for the last 15 years I've worked with private dental practices to implement systems and processes to boost and generate growth. Now, normally that's through patient acquisition, attracting patients, doing a five-star patient consultation experience and then growing revenue through conversion. So getting that patient to say yes, using the right systems and processes. So you reduce stress with your team and then scale revenue, and I'm a big believer in that. Anything in business from the business point of view is solved with revenue. If the staff are complaining about stuff in the staff room, that's a problem, solved with revenue. If people want to pay rise, that's a revenue problem. You want to get a lick of paint and more signage, more marketing, for example? Revenue solves a lot of problems. So that's where my mindset comes in and I'm really pleased to be joining with these guys, because these guys bring a different dynamic which I think completely complements revenue and business growth. Because no, let's face it right, there's no point having all of that success if you're not in the right health or in the right mind frame.

Dr James, 4m 38s:

So there's me yeah, no, it's true, and I actually agree with you on two parts. I do think that 80% business problems, 70% I'd have to do a survey on that and just figure out the exact numbers, but something along those lines are probably revenue problems in essence, or at least a component of it. I would agree with that. And then the second thing that you were going to say, that you were saying just then as well, with regards to thinking about things from a wider perspective, I've met so many people who are like 55 and 60 and they've got piles of money and like 10 dental practices and I swear they're not that happy man, like they're not happy people. Uh, no, of course, listen, you see it from both sides. There are plenty of people in that position who are. What I'm saying is that it's not the sole determinant over happiness. One thousand percent, and probably an older version of me six, seven years ago needs to hear that effectively, and that's the sort of information that I'd like to just make public to the dental community. On Dentistry Invest and yeah, it sounds so trite, people are like money's not everything and everything along those lines, but we say that, but we often operate out of that energy a lot of the times. That's why I'm so keen to delve into this today. Anywho, Dr Rana, how are you today?

Dr Rana, 5m 50s:

I am amazing. Thank you, thank you Positive energy. Always positive, but wasn't always so when I was practicing dentistry the whole time and running my own practices, because in those days it was stress galore, it was never having a lunch break and it was sat there till eight o'clock in the evening doing all of the extra work. So what am I? Well, I don't even like to define myself by a label, and I think we're going to get on to that when we look at actually how to achieve financial wealth. So I work as a periodontist. I also work, work as a leadership and wellbeing coach and you touched on happiness there and really I call myself an optimal performance strategist, because it is about creating strategy systems, providing tools and empowering and engaging dental professionals to achieve optimal performance, which is really this level of high performance, so that high level of success, whatever that means to you, financial being part of it but in a way that is truly sustainable. So you don't get the burnout, so you don't get the misery, so you don't get the poor health, so you don't need any more wake up calls.

Dr James, 6m 58s:

Wow sounds amazing, and I'm sure a lot of people could do with that for sure, not just in dentistry, but professionals more widely speaking. However, we're going to focus, of course, on the target audience today of dentists, because that's what's going to bring the most value to the listeners. Okay, guys, we'll listen. So, for everybody who's listening to this podcast right now, give you some context. We have not actually planned what to say past this point, so anything that we say is ad hoc and freestyle. And on that note and in that vein and in that spirit, guys, what I'm going to say to all three of you right here, right now. You get a dent. Let's imagine you've got a dentist in front of you and they're like your ideal client or person that you serve. Whenever it comes to all this stuff that you talk about, they're stressed. They haven't got enough money in a bank account. Their team don't believe in them. Potentially they're a principal as well. They've got people pulling them every which way. They're servants to everybody except their own happiness. How can that person take back control, both mentally, in terms of their mindset, and also whenever it comes to the point of view or perspective of their wealth? Who'd like to kick off?

Nin-Gandhi, 8m 4s:

point of view or perspective of their wealth. Who'd like to kick off? I'm going to jump in right here because I think the key players in this particular podcast are both Renner and Elke, and the reason I'd like to kick off is because I'm not from dentistry and, having been introduced into dentistry from a marketing and sales point of view, I take for granted what it's like to come from a corporate business and then what we call a hands-on owner-operator business. Most dental practices are owner-operator and when I started to learn more about the challenges and the struggles that dentists are responsible for, what you see sometimes on social media, what you see sometimes face to face when you're with a dentist, is completely the opposite sometimes what's happening in real life. So true, so true. Sorry to jump in, absolutely, and before I hand the mic over to Dr Renner and Dr Alka. It's almost like positioning. It's like I was shocked. I was shocked at the statistics of, you know, highest rates of stress, highest rate of depression and suicide. You know, that's a really, really, you know, sensitive subject for a lot of people. But the more I've learned about dentistry and I've only had a short window, let's say talking 15 years I can totally understand where those pressures come from, and social media and the internet and exposure hasn't helped and I think it's super, super vital. You know all the stuff that Dr Renner does and Dr Elka does about the bar hacking the health, getting your mindset in the right place. So, guys, I'm like thrilled to be like collaborating with these guys on this subject to bring more awareness, but also allow the client you talk about a dentist being in front of you, allow that dentist to open up, because a lot of us don't do this. We don't open up because we don't feel safe and we don't feel like this is the, this is the stage to do it and and we would like to bring more awareness around that.

Dr Rana, 10m 0s:

So I'd like to pass it over now to either Dr elka or Dr runner absolutely, I'll go first, actually, and you know, a story always tells a thousand words, right? So when I was looking into dentistry, which was about 35 years ago now I remember at the time going into dentistry thinking this is amazing. I don't want to go into medicine, I don't want to deal with sick people all the time, and yet I can do so many things. You know, there's anesthesia and there's cosmetics, and there's behavior change and there's surgery. So there were all of these things that you would qualify from and touch on in order to be a dentist. Now, if we extrapolate that into what it's like to be a practice owner, you come out of dental school with I mean, now it's a five-year course, right? So you have a little bit on psychology and sociology and communication skills and how to read a paper, but you do not come out with the skills of how to be a business owner. How to be a business owner, how to convert and sell, how to manage your own stress, how to deal with finances and financial planning. You have how to deal with social media and websites. So suddenly you're this dentist who spent all these years learning all of these skills, which, god, yeah, you have to do them on a day-to-day basis, but as a practice owner and even as an associate to some extent. You then have to do all of this other stuff as well. So the first thing I actually ask like it. Like Nin said, in terms of getting people to really open up, there are two tactics. One is actually simply to elevate somebody's mood and take them through a visioning exercise what is your ideal life? What does that actually look like? And to really determine through that, because when people start to think of their ideal, their mood automatically elevates and they start to open up. But to truly imagine exactly what it is they want, because most people don't know what they want. You ask someone what they want, they'll tell you what they don't want, because most people don't know what they want. You ask someone what they want, they'll tell you what they don't want, which means that's where all their attention is going and where attention goes, energy flows. So turn it around to a visioning exercise to say what exactly is it that you want and nail that down. And the other aspect, the the kind of the secret formula which people underestimate, is actually knowing who you are. You know, I started my intro saying I don't have a label, because if all I am is a dentist, how the hell am I supposed to do and be all of these other things and all these other roles in my life? Because outside of dentistry, you know, I'm also a mother and I'm a leader, and I'm a speaker and I'm an author. So who are you at your core? What makes you you, what makes you unique, what makes you authentic? And then how are you able to keep that going and sustain that? Because if you are you, you will be able to create all those necessary roles around you.

Dr Alka, 13m 0s:

And I think, just picking up on that as well, renna, I think that the biggest thing I would say on the back of that to every single dentist that is listening now. So, if you're in front of me right now, james, the one thing I'm saying to you is dentists die too early. Right, it's the too early bit that we have to remember. And then we have to go back into why, like, why is that so? My husband's a dentist and the colleagues that were with him at university they're no longer on this planet, the dentists they're with him. Same age, same cohort. They don't exist anymore, right, and that's dying too early. Why is that? What is actually playing into that? Because what are you, you doing? You're so busy taking care of everything else around you your practice, your team, your finances, your family. Now, the one person that gives in all of that is you. So back to the you. It's not just who are you, but what do you know about yourself? And I come at this from this kind of perspective back from health, right, what are you? But what do you know about yourself? And I come at this from this kind of perspective of back from health, right, what are you actually doing to get the granular details of your health, like I said to you right now. You know, do you know how you're making energy games? You know like, do you know how much magnesium you've got on board to make to go through that krebs cycle? Like we learned it all at dental school and medical school, we throw, throw it out the window and go. Oh no, I don't know. Well, do you know how many toxins you've got in your body that you're surging through every day? Do you know what's showing up because of the environment of your dental practice that's then infiltrating into your body? You have no idea. And yet you will happily go and spend 20K, maybe on a lovely family holiday, investing that 20k yourself, right, and I say this kind of really sadly. But, um, I know of dental colleagues that have died on holiday in these amazing holidays, where they spent luxurious amounts of money and then just not made it home. You know it's a really sad thing to happen and say so. Where is that? What is that investment? We're talking about wealth and finances. So where is that? What is that investment? We're talking about wealth and finances here. So where are you investing that as well? Where's it going? If not part of it at least you know, to have respect enough for yourself and connect with your identity as this human being who's on this planet is to reinvest that in yourself and in your own health right.

Dr James, 15m 16s:

Well, I think there's a really nice analogy in there that how can we say, maybe a health coach I don't know if that was quite their label, but they were definitely in that field said to me once and they said okay, so if you're the engine right, you keep wanting to crank the output of the engine, but you're literally not oiling it, right, you know, you're literally not putting any oil in there. You're putting maybe there's a little bit of fuel going in there, the fuel is not optimized but you're also not actually oiling the engine yet. Yet you're expecting more output. And for me that metaphor really worked because I was like, right, well, that would be pretty unreasonable to expect that. So why is it that I continuously do that?

Nin-Gandhi, 15m 51s:

and I'm sure that that probably resonates with a lot of people listening as well yeah, absolutely, and you know, listening to everyone just contributing there on their piece, it made me realize, and especially when Alka said that you know colleagues, that she knows who are no longer here, and when you hear it like that, that actually like triggered an emotion and it was a very sad emotion. Of course, and you know it's a very sensitive subject we don't want to speak about it, openly at least, and I think a lot of people are avoiding it. They know how serious health is, they know how important looking after all the good stuff is, but most people, let's face it, most people think, well, that's not me, yet that's not. You know, I'm sad for the other person but it didn't happen to me, or I can't think that's going to happen to me. And I think everyone think that's going to happen to me and I think everyone, including your audience listening to run out. We've all had our fair share of challenges, right, everyone's got their baggage. But let's be super, super honest and straight to it. Health is the number one, most important thing that we can ever value. Think about it. We love our family, we love our you know, our workforce, all our teams and even our pets. We've got an unlikestatable love for them, but we're not going to be able to do anything if we don't look after our health. And I heard somebody say was it when some I don't know if it was on you guys said that would you give all you know? You would give all your money in 20 years time? You would give everything you've got now to have the health that you've got right now, assuming it's good, right. So health has to come before wealth, and I'm talking financial wealth.

Dr Rana, 17m 34s:

Just to interrupt you, I would just say actually, your wealth is your health. There are so many different forms of wealth. Your wealth may may be your family connections. It's your financial life. It's your emotional and physical health and mental health. It's your, the peers that you surround yourself with. It's your social health, your environmental health, so the environment that you that you work in. Health. It has so many different forms and I think it's really important to make that, to really stress that at the moment, because we are not just talking about keeping the human body, going from what you feed it and exercise. We're also going right down to how you think, how you behave and the people you surround yourself with.

Dr Alka, 18m 18s:

I think the key thing there as well, renna, is I did a TEDx talk in this actually, and you know, like we were talking about the titles for today's show and I really thought about what's the title for my TEDx talk and it came down to health is a verb, not a noun, and what I mean by that is health is what we do right Every single day in terms of how we connect, how we eat, how we eat, how we move, how we sleep, everything that we're doing, creating that environment around us. But it's got to be something that we do. And look, I know I brought the morbid stuff up first, partly so that we just take the elephant out of the room, because I'm all about making health fun. Right Me on this kind of walking treadmill at the moment. This is me kind of having fun with my health, right Me, with all my tech and my rings and all of that that I do, like it's making health fun. So I think we have to lift that layer of health as well, that it's not something that's a burden. We're not talking about disease and dying. We're talking about being really proactive and having that vitality and that energy and that desire. Because, again, the one thing I see in so many dentists is they're just not happy like that daily grind right and it just kind of feels like here's another day getting through the sludge right. So how do we make that environment that you're in a happy, vibrant, energizing environment? And number one, it comes from you. You have to be that person. Right, you are the radiator, you're not the drain. We say this right, be the radiator in the room. But you're not going to do that if your back is achy've got pain in your neck, you've been diagnosed with with cancer, you've got brain fog, you're feeling emotionally anxious, you haven't slept all night. So again, back to invest in that you connect with that identity of you from a feeling perspective, but also from a knowing perspective, knowing your biology and everything that goes with that well.

Dr James, 19m 58s:

Well, I think a big mindset shift for me was to realize that actually it's not necessary. It's actually not necessary to be that way, because we've got this whole hashtag hustler culture mindset where that's normalized. And for me, I used to be that person 1%, not even terribly long ago, like two years ago and I was like, right, I'm not achieving the most or I'm not being my most productive unless I feel that way. And now and now I realize I look back on that and I was like, actually, james, you just weren't that good at delegating and having a team around you who bought into what you were saying. Because here's the thing if we're talking about output, well, it's volume of inputs times leverage. Right, you can be putting a lot of volumes of input into your life or towards your goal, but you can have very little leverage and you can actually achieve the same output by just having massive leverage and understanding how to achieve that properly. One example of leverage is having a team around you who are willing to collaborate in what you do. And I just wanted to shout out something, I just wanted to get something when you guys were talking. It's this book called Traction. And after this podcast, I'm going to officially shut up about this book, right, because I've been going on about it so much for the last week and posting on the group, but it really is that good. It's probably one of the top five business books I've ever read, so I just wanted to shout that out, gina Wickman, and it's all about how to get buy-in from your team so that you know that you're collaboratively moving together in sync towards a common goal and also giving them discretion to have innovation towards that goal as well, which I definitely wasn't doing enough off. It was very much me who was leading the sort of innovation ideas side of things and I always wondered why that didn't happen as much I would have liked, and I realized it because I wasn't given permission to do that and also crystallizing what we were trying to achieve. Anyway, renna, I just want to bring you in on what I've just said, because I know that that is your forte. It's on leadership and getting everybody's thing from the same.

Dr Rana, 21m 46s:

Yeah, and getting buy-in. So something we do is it's something called the five behaviors of high-performing teams or of cohesive teams, and the idea is actually the foundation of that pyramid is about really establishing trust, which sadly doesn't happen in teams. There is so much toxic culture there. So it's building trust and what we call vulnerability based trust and you as a leader, you as the practice principal so often actually you become tunnel visioned and all you want to actually get on with the dentistry, maybe pass things on to your practice manager that there isn't time to have those conversations with other team members and develop trust. Or you have a couple of dental nurses and nobody trusts each other and it becomes a really bitchy environment. So the foundation of any high performance is actually to create trust. And then the bit about the buy-in. The next kind of part of that triangle is about conflict and you think hang on a minute wait. we don't want to have conflict, we don't want to be arguing is about conflict and you think, hang on, a minute, wait, we don't want to have conflict, we don't want to be arguing. But actually, if everybody has a chance to have their say, if you can have your say and you can bounce ideas and you can brainstorm, but you can also criticize other people's ideas in a safe, trusted environment what ultimately happens is when somebody makes the decision and that doesn't mean you make the decision based on what everybody on a collaborative view. You are still the leader and will make the decision, but everyone has had their chance to have their say Then the next kind of step up from that becomes commitment, because once everyone's had buy-in, they're more committed to where you need to go. They've had their say, fair play, they've had a chance. And then it becomes about accountability and everybody holding the other accountable, so that this is never just about one person. It might be one dental nurse holding another dental nurse accountable, which means nobody gets to hide and together that pinnacle of the triangle means you achieve results, you achieve team results. So it is never just about you. And there are ways that you can measure this as well, which is fantastic, so you can do various assessments, actually measure what is in the team measure and see what the different personality types are actually like and then measure the progress afterwards through the training that we can provide. And it is fascinating, because that exactly that it's about how do you create that, that team performance?

Dr Alka, 24m 3s:

on that renner is there's another parallel triad as well, which is when you don't have that in place, then what follows to me quickly is burnout. Right, and we and it's not burnout, that's just reserved for the dentists, we've got the managers and the nurses and the whole team experiencing it. And this is where that sort of ABC comes in, because those telltale signs if you haven't got this sense of autonomy which is what you were alluding to, james if you haven't got this sense that you can be making your own decisions and be responsible for them, you're going to be burning out. If you don't have a sense of belonging, you don't feel you belong to this team, this sense that I'm part of here and I get to be part of this tribe and this place, you're going to be burning out. And the third one is competence. Right, we all need to feel good about what we do. So if you're constantly being criticized but not being supported to be competent, you're burning out. So that kind of ABC tribe autonomy, belonging and competence is again so important to just look at within your practice, right, does that exist, not just for you, but for every single person?

Dr James, 25m 7s:

we don't have to bottleneck aren't you, unless you give some people autonomy. But nin I wanted to bring you in on the uh, what we've just said with regards to a solid team that will help you achieve your goal from a systems and processes back end perspective, because I understand that that is part of your forte. How can we go about implementing that?

Nin-Gandhi, 25m 28s:

or, you know, I listening to, uh, Dr rena, Dr alka, speak about um, you know the, the ideas and the suggestions there it made me smile. I'm nodding away because, even though I'm a different side of the business sales and revenue, growth, patient attraction it's all needed for a successful business. And what I loved about what both of them said is getting the team involved. So, for example, a principal would say to me hey, how do I incentivize the team to get the more bookings and get the close rate from, for example, the TCOs, for example? Right, so one way to do that is to have the team agree upon an incentive. So, for example, if you have a staff meeting, you go around and this is a really easy one to start with. You say to everyone great, if we could take you to a restaurant, which one would you pick? And you literally go around the room and everyone gives a suggestion for a restaurant, okay. And then that ranges from Nando's up to you know other restaurants that are really fancy and you know it might get some people saying, dishoom in there. That's one that everyone wants to go to nowadays. But a restaurant local to where your city is and where your practice is based, but everyone contributes. And then you say let's say you've got 10 people in the room, that gives you 10 restaurants, which means that gives you 10 months of a sales type target. And the great thing about that is when you hit whichever target you set, then you go to the first restaurant and you celebrate the team. And the beauty of that is the person who chose that restaurant. They're like, hey, that's my choice, yeah, we're going to, and you get that buy-in and it works. And I see this again and again. Now it's very, be very careful. The best thing to do is order the average cost per head of restaurants in order. Don't go for the Mayfair first right, start with the Nando's and work your way down down. So that's a little trick as well. So that's one thing. And then Alka said something which I really love. She said competence. I recently saw the making of the Mission Impossible film. I'm a huge fan of Mission Impossible films and Tom Cruise. Of course, I reckon you're not like Tom Cruise, but when they were making the last Mission Impossible, he does this unbelievable stunt where he gets the motorcycle and he goes off the mountain to catch the train Right. If you've seen the film, it's incredible. But I watched the making of that stunt and obviously he did it himself. But he said something right into the, into the camera, before he flew that bike off the mountain and he said don't be confident, be competent. And I thought, wow, that's such a powerful statement to run your business and your team and also your life goals, because we can all be very confident. Right, confidence is very easy, like I'm going to be amazing, I'm going to hit that target, and you can stand on the ends of the cliff thinking I can fly. That's confidence. But hold on a second. If you don't have the right structure and competence, I'm sorry. You step off that cliff, you're going down, you're not going to fly, right. If you don't have the right stunt safety around that particular stunt that Tom Cruise did, it's going to end up in a very bad, bad way, right. So be competent. Confidence is good, of course, but competent supersedes that. And then the other thing that Alka said which I love was the ABC, and I'm not going to get into this too much, but where I'm in the world that I come from, which is sales and marketing, ABC is always be closing, and I love that. You've got your own version there of ABC, right.

Dr James, 29m 4s:

So there's a whole nother story which we get into another time. We could make a podcast on ABC acronyms, right, because there's a ton out there, right? Isn't there what I was going to say? Sorry, Rana, were you waving your hands there? Did you want to say something?

Dr Rana, 29m 17s:

Oh no, I was just agreeing about the ABCs.

Dr James, 29m 25s:

Oh, gotchacha, we've all got our own ABC acronyms. I love that. Always be closing right there. That's a new one for me. I love that anyway. Um, but, uh, but this is just going just circling back to what I was saying at the at the very start. You know, you're how you see the world, your own beliefs are reaffirming right, and if you believe that you have to be working ultra hard, you might be working ultra hard, but are you actually being productive? That that productive, necessarily, and that for me was a big thing to overcome. Uh, not even that long ago, I'm gonna say like 12 months ago now, something along those lines. But then I just wanted to ask you something, uh, quickly actually. So obviously we've talked about uh, how can we say a lot of uh? Well, it's with regards to wealth, but also from a broader perspective, whenever it comes to health as well, and especially whenever it comes to health as well, and especially whenever it comes to clinicians, as in dental clinicians. But what I wanted to know was you know, in your experience from going into dental practice and saying right, guys, we've got to optimize this, we've got to do this better, we've got to enhance this, and obviously the state of the m is increasing revenue and increasing the productivity of the dental practice. In that sense, what would you say the most common pitfalls is for dentists? Or like, when you come into practice, the most common things you see and you're just like right, do this, do this, do this and you're going to make a huge difference. Because us dentists, we don't have contacts in our own situations, but you do because you go into lots of practices.

Nin-Gandhi, 30m 33s:

Yeah, yeah, okay. So, and I'm going to be careful not to go down the rabbit holes here, because these can go very deep Okay, so I'll try and keep this top level. In my experience, what I've seen is most dental practice owners let's just focus on the principles for now Okay, because even the managers have a key role in this. But managers, let's face it, they're firefighting most of the time. Okay, and the principals are guilty of this in my experience, and that is they believe that what they've got and how they've set their practice up is right or is correct or is optimized, and nine times out of 10, again, in my experience it's not. And this is why dental practice owners go from one marketing company to another, to another and to another, and it is what it is. And marketing companies are going to love this because they charge fees and it's a very lucrative business marketing is. But on the other side, the reason why I don't push marketing is because there's no point marketing or spending money on ads if you do not have the right systems. And the systems are really simple Someone who's trained in answering your phones, that's a system, that's a process that you need to focus on, and if your receptionist has been a receptionist for 20 years. That's amazing. But are they trained in sales? Do they know the art of persuasion? Are they ABCing? Are they always be closing? Okay, so there's a technique there and of course we've got the AIQ training program for that. But that's one little process. Then what's your process in qualifying the patient before they come in, right? Remember, a lot of reception teams are quick to book patients in, but we don't qualify them, and then they come in and what we've done is we've wasted the time of someone with a higher hourly rate. So let me put that into context If I'm on reception, my hourly rate is not the same as a treatment coordinator and definitely not the same as a dentist. So if we're quick to book people in and book them in with a dentist without qualifying them and, by the way, it's not your fault, you just haven't been trained in sales the person comes in, the patient comes in and the doctor's like, well, I can't help you right now. And then we don't realize how much money is just literally being wasted. So, yes, it's about systems and processes, but we can really break them down and, to answer your question, the thing that I see is that dental practices are very quick to make a decision on marketing, and that's the wrong thing to do. Right, you need to have your systems in place first, then do marketing. You'll get a lot more bang for your buck, which means that what we call ROAS return on advertising spend that just goes through the roof and how it should be when you've got the right systems and processes in place. Basically, it comes down to training, mindset and well, let's call it the North Star. What are we doing this for? What's the point?

Dr James, 33m 37s:

Yeah, well, there's an analogy I really like on that, and I know Russell Brunson is not everybody's favorite person in the whole wide world, but he did pot, he did mainstream marketing, he did mainstream a lot of concepts of marketing and his funnel concept is something I think about a lot and it's it's basically, if you've got people coming, you've got a funnel marketing. Your business is a funnel. Every business is a right and right at the bottom. You know, the thing about a funnel is it's wide at the top and narrow at the bottom and right at the bottom. These are the people that filter through and become paying customers. At the top is everybody who learns about your business right now. Here's the thing. There's a lot of businesses out there. In my opinion, they got holes in their funnel right and what it means is that at the very bottom was actual paying customers, so few people actually make it from the top to the bottom in terms of people who've heard about the business and we've marketed to that. Actually, instead of pouring more water in more people into the funnel, they'd be better off just tightening it up in the first place, which is kind of what you're getting at, or at least in part, and you're right. A lot of people don't realize how much good communication can help them, especially whenever it comes to staff members who've not necessarily had this training. Renna and Alka. Any thoughts on anything that we've just said?

Dr Rana, 34m 47s:

I think touching on the communication is really really important, right? Because communication is not just someone picking up the phone and being friendly although that's often your first call, but it is. It's about that the right type of communication, isn't it? It's about what we call influential communication. So, really, the a, your nims, abc knowing who it is you're speaking to, being able to pick up the language being used by the person making the inquiry, being able to pick up the nuances within the tone, being able to pick up specific words can actually, if you train your team like that, it's able to tell them a lot about what this person is like, what they're really looking for and, in which case, who you allocate them to, and also what you know what you actually do with them. And the same with the dentist. Actually, sorry, I'm stepping on your territory a little bit then, but put it in context, right, my conversion rate for any consultation I was running my practice practice we used to have about 20% of referrals. I was a specialist practice 20% of referrals that would come in with just the dentist ticking the boxes that they've done their job and referred, and we couldn't get the patient in. But when we did, my conversion rate was in the 90s. It was typically about 95% and the others that didn't convert because they didn't need treatment. Then I had associates who were converting about 50 to 60% and I remember one of them turning around. This is going to be a really good transition into actually money mindset. So back into the thoughts Saying to me yeah, only Renner can get those kind of conversions and only Renner can charge those prices, which is a load of nonsense. It's about training. You can train your team, you can shift your mindset and your belief system. So part of it where you said and then it's about competence, there is that competency factor, but it is also about having the inner self-confidence and the inner self-belief and understanding the value in what you're doing and not thinking that money is a dirty word. Right, we love money. Let's just put it out there. It's a good thing it is 1000.

Dr James, 36m 55s:

okay, so talk about money and that's actually what we want to normalize and that's it's a big mission and actually why I started Dentistry Invest back in the day, because a lot of the time when we skirt around and stuff like that, we're also simultaneously skirting around one of the things that can have the most impact whenever it comes to our life, whenever it comes to our happiness, whenever it comes to our freedom. But of course that doesn't mean that we go wacky and we do things that are morally ambiguous for money. It certainly we go wacky and you know we do things that are morally ambiguous for money. It certainly doesn't mean that, but it what it does mean is that it's okay to talk about it and explore the things that we've mentioned in this podcast alka, anything you want to add to what we said, also kind of just thinking about.

Dr Alka, 37m 32s:

You know, this is all touching on being productive and being efficient and maximizing this kind of utility of time, and we talk a lot about kind of time management. You know the staff have got to be managing their time well, and I think the thing that we forget in all of this is it's never really about time management, it's always about energy management. But it comes back to what are you doing to be your most energetic self so that you can have that clarity of decision making, so that you can be competent at what you do, so you do have that emotional intelligence to understand how you're communicating. I think without that and it's the simple things right the hacks like are your staff drinking enough water? Are they hydrated? Because if they're not, they're not thinking straight, they're exhausted and it's showing up as emotional reactivity. Or it's showing up at sitting on desk all day long picking up a phone when really they could be standing up. How many practices have got their receptionist standing at desk? And you look at the difference between what happens when people stand up and when they sit down in terms of what they get done. Everyone's like get up everybody.

Dr Rana, 38m 40s:

I'm guilty. Now I need to stand up, but you know I'm actually standing oh yeah, the pennies guys on that point.

Nin-Gandhi, 38m 47s:

We, we recently, we, you know, we had it. We had an event over the uh, the weekend, um, and we, this, this came up where we it's, we're very, very quick to buy in the donuts and the pizzas and the croissants and and the coca-colas and the fizzy stuff, all the donuts and the pizzas and the croissants and the Coca-Cola's and the fizzy stuff, all the good stuff, the beige food right.

Dr James, 39m 5s:

The beige food.

Nin-Gandhi, 39m 6s:

That's what we've got to watch out for. And actually the intention is good. Hey, we want everyone to feel great and you know, but actually we're feeding them the wrong stuff. Now, look, I don't want to turn anyone off here and it's like well, I'm not switching my croissants and I'm definitely not stopping donuts, but what we're saying is we have to think about the strategy. And if we want someone who's on reception or is an MPC, a new patient coordinator, that is a tough role, relentless, it's nonstop, and you've got to be as energetic as call number one at 9.01 AM, right the way through to 8 PM. Right, because it's not fair to the patient that called at 7.30, gets a watered-down, run-down version of you just because you had too many donuts, right?

Dr Alka, 39m 52s:

So the challenge here, nan, is that, although you were kind of saying, listen, I'm not saying no to the donuts like I am saying no to the donuts, right? Because, again, as practice owners, that responsibility for looking after the health of your team actually also rests with you, right? Like health is everybody's business, yes, it's an individual business, you've got to take care of yourself, but it's also a responsibility for those who are in the practice. So what are you creating as that culture in your practice? And you don't necessarily join the dots that that donut at lunchtime meant. You know that 5 pm phone call didn't go so well, but there is a direct correlation, right? So you've got again got to make it fun. If we're going to have foodie friday, right? You know foodie friday the day that the donuts come in, not every single day, right? You really think about some of that kind of you know, team spirit. What are you? What are you creating?

Dr Rana, 40m 39s:

and also on that role, alka, exactly so, create those team challenges that you know every has. Everybody like what's the competition chart on the wall? Did you stand every hour? Did you do? Did you do your squats on your chairs? Uh, you know who had their water? Almost just as a. You can make it playful within the practice. Right, we forget to play at work and have fun at work. So actually you can create all these team challenges. And then also, nin again, sorry to challenge you and I do love a donut, but it's really a guilty pleasure is actually we're healthcare professionals and we're telling our patients to cut down on sugar and certainly, from a periodontitis point of view, everybody to have antioxidants and multicolored foods and hydration and exercise and sleep and all those things to keep our patients healthy and deal with their chronic disease. So we need to walk the talk as health professionals to be doing that for our teams as well, as well as, of course, the added benefits of productivity. And then let's just talk about productivity for a second. If you free up one hour, one hour a day, by being more productive, with the fact that your team's been able to collaborate because they've had more energy, and the fact that your team has been trained properly so they don't waste the appointment book with those silly five minute gaps and actually understand the value and you're more productive in terms of the work you do and the decision-making that you make. Like, what is the average hourly rate for a dental practice? Average, I don't know. 300, 400 pounds an hour? Let's call it 300, a rough billing rate for a routine dentist In a five-day week that's 1,500 pounds.

Nin-Gandhi, 42m 17s:

I mean, renée, if you give me an hour, 1,000 pounds from one hour.

Dr Rana, 42m 20s:

Yeah, rené, if you give me, an hour, 1,000 pounds from one hour.

Nin-Gandhi, 42m 23s:

Yeah, rené, if you give me an hour, with the right team, the right mindset, I'll show you how to make a million in 12 months. It's like it's life-changing the hour, the right hour. With the right energy and the right input versus output, you can increase revenue between 750 to a million. In fact, it's actually 1.5 million if you do it right. So the that hour is super valuable.

Dr Rana, 42m 45s:

So I'm all yeah, so it's how we optimize, how do we create the hour right, with the systems and strategies, with the right mindset, minimizing the stress and decision making and emotional intelligence, and with the optimizing your health and your physical energy and your mental clarity. Right, it's the triad.

Dr James, 43m 2s:

Boom, there we go. And you know what? So many interesting points there. And here's the interesting thing about this podcast. I bet we could triple this in length and still have time. I still have many interesting points to talk about. I like to keep these around the 40, 50 minute mark. We're just enroaching upon that. Now. Do you know what's funny? 40, 50 minute mark. We're just in the roach and we're upon that. Now. Do you know what's funny? When some I think it was you, um Alka, when you were talking about, yeah, we should get our team to stand in the practice and then I find myself drifting off into the thought like, hey, that must be nice for those people who stand at work. And then I realized I'm literally standing on this podcast right here right now. So that's why I got excited when I dropped. And yeah, I do. I do all of my Zoom meetings standing up and I find that well, it's helpful whenever it comes to the energy level side of things. So just sharing that with the audience. I know not necessarily everybody spends a lot of time on Zoom, but there might be some wisdom in there somewhere that you can adapt to your workplace. Guys, I know that you have an event coming up rather soon. We talk about all this stuff and more. Have I got that right?

Nin-Gandhi, 44m 1s:

Correct and you know, yes, James, we can talk about this, but I can imagine a lot of your audience are thinking well, you know, what are the solutions, what are the suggestions? Or what do we do when there's a birthday in the team and the obvious auto response is to bring in a birthday cake, which is, you know, going against everything we just said? So what are the alternatives? How do we get that extra hour? How do we get the team all energized? And one of the reasons why I'm super grateful to be linked with Alka and Renner is because of this event that we've got coming up, which is called the 3R event. You probably see it on the background there. The 3R event is resilience, revenue and results All the things that you need to link in the health, the mindset, your leadership and the business growth. And yeah, it's coming up. I think it's happening on the. It's a Saturday, it's a two-day event. It's Saturday and Sunday, 16th and 17th of November, bang in central. It's in North London, actually in a beautiful location. We're going to share a link and we'd love anyone to get in touch and, of course, for your audience, james, uh, we've got a bit of a special rate going on as well. So if the if Dr, alcor Dr and I want to add anything to the event and what people can expect yeah, I think, from my point of view, I I believe in experiential, multi-sensory training.

Dr Rana, 45m 19s:

so so this is not death by PowerPoint. This is definitely not you sitting down looking at a million and one slides and us just preaching to you. It's about experiencing everything, to see how your energy shifts, what stress relief you actually have. So we aim to make it fun, playful, insightful, innovative, energizing and inspiring. So and there will definitely be some surprises- but no cake.

Dr James, 45m 44s:

No cake, surprises right.

Dr Alka, 45m 49s:

We're literally about. We've got to make our life fun. We've got to make our health fun as part of that, and the most important thing is to be really specific and have a strategy a strategy for your health, a strategy for leadership, a strategy for revenue growth as well and we bring all of that to the table in a really kind of fun, entertaining, energizing, interactive way. So we're all about that. I hope we've given you a little bit of a flavor of that today as well 100%.

Dr James, 46m 14s:

Well, listen, guys, I just want to say thanks so much for all being so generous with your time, wisdom and knowledge today on the podcast, the first ever three-way well four of us, if you include me on the Dentist Invest podcast, and I think we did a rather good job of all communicating nicely and harmoniously, yeah, so clap off us. I like that. I like that. Dr Alka leading the way there. Nin, I saw your hand go up. Did you want to say one final thing? No, no, I was clapping, that was a clap. Oh sorry, it's because Zoom has shrunk you down to a thumbnail. Apologies about that. Guys, thanks so much for your time. I think we should do another episode. Let's talk on that soon. In the meantime, hope everybody has an absolutely smashing Monday and we'll see each other soon.