Dr James, 7s:

Paul, how have you been since we last spoke? What's fresh? What have you been up to?

Dr Paul, 12s:

No, just adding on from that, imagine your whole life for like six months, where you've got that person in your ear constantly saying, no, you can't say this, yes, you can say this. So it's quite nice to have the freedom, because I think, going off what we did last time I spoke to you just before the final five episode I think week 10 had just got released and we were talking about, you know, going into the final five and it's been wild since then. I mean, a better question would be to ask what I've not been up to. But you know, even at that time when we, when the final five episode was airing, I got the opportunity to do three TV shows in four days, which is crazy. So I had to do your fired, your hired. And this morning and it's funny because last year only the two finalists got to go in this morning and my mom, she loves this morning Like she. She lives and dies by this morning. It's like a religion to her. So I remember when I was in that position in those final moments and, weirdly enough, one of the thoughts that was going through my mind is like, oh, my mom's gonna be so pissed off, I'm not gonna get to go on this morning. So when I got the opportunity to go on, I was very happy, very, very happy you made her pride that day.

Dr James, 1m 25s:

You made her pride. There we go respect, respect, awesome. So what have you not been up to is a better question. Well, uh, I mean, I'll tell you one thing I saw on your instagram. It's interesting, right, maybe one thing I saw on your instagram there's you've got a range of uh party clothes for uh, maybe you described better than me party clothes and I saw reasons and things along those lines. Is that right? Yeah, formal wear essentially what.

Dr Paul, 1m 51s:

What happened was um.

Dr James, 1m 52s:

I'll go in chronological order so, yeah, that's probably a good way so we obviously final five, those last moments happen.

Dr Paul, 1m 59s:

I know that we're going to speak about at some point, um, but then got to go on the tv shows. We got. I got to go to the nrtas, which was amazing, uh, so that's the national reality tv awards, where the apprentice won the best tv reality show the uk the first time ever in its history, um, and there we got to network with um other kind of reality stars who got to meet the chases, uh, like love islanders, traitors, all those guys. So I think for me you know, just, obviously I'm just a dentist, right, so, but being in that room full of these people that you, you know, you watch regularly, it was quite a humbling moment and it was nice just to be in that kind of crowd. Really Played a celebrity football match with, like ex-Premier League legends, youtubers and other reality TV show stars, which was crazy. So, like, the stadium was packed, we had our own kits, did the line out everything, um, so that was a wonderful experience. Uh, what else I've been doing? Yeah, what you mentioned as well. So, uh, my pr agent managed to, um, she was basically like we need to get some like headshots, we need to get some up-to-date things and there's this brand that's willing to pay and also allow us to use the headshots. So I got to do that with Love Islander and Verdi from the Apprentice as well, where we had really good fun with it. So I think it's just opened up so many new opportunities for me, and I've been taking them with both hands.

Dr James, 3m 30s:

Wow, man. So it sounds like it's really been Crazy since then and it all started like here's the thing you know, when you start putting yourself out there, right, it's it's kind of like you appreciate how many more amazing Opportunities come your way just purely because you're in the public eye. And it happens at every level, even before you're getting on the apprentice, even just doing content and things along those lines, until you're it's only until when you're on the other side of it, you actually really appreciate it and it opens up so many doors and it sounds like you've been on that journey as well.

Dr Paul, 4m 5s:

No, 100%, and I think one of the things that you know what we were talking about before was the ability to network. I think networking is the most important ability of that anyone can ever have, because, well, funny story is basically my cousin wanted to do a birthday in London and I was really stretched for time as like peak apprentice time and I wasn't sure what I was gonna do it. But I thought you know what she's always been there for me. I want to come down, let's go celebrate. And I was really struggling to get a PR agent at this time that would almost synergize or like synchronize with the values that that I have in terms of with dentistry and also with not not kind of doing things. That would be against my ethos, if that makes sense, because I only want to do things that I I want to do and B that will help me grow right. And we were just. We were at this place. It's a random restaurant in London and this lady comes up to me. She's a PR agent. She talked me through everything. She told me everything I wanted to hear, and she was a PR agent for a couple of other people that I know as well. Really highly recommended, and that's when all these opportunities started coming my way. So if I didn't do that little bit of networking then then a lot of those opportunities wouldn't have come my way.

Dr James, 5m 24s:

You know, I think there's a lot of validity in logic in just taking like 10% to 20% of your overall time and just talking to people, meeting random people and learning random things. Because to me, the mindset I was once in, I was like, right, how can I work so unbelievably hard that I can take 100% of my time and channel it into dentistry or whatever it was that was preoccupying me at the time. And if you do that that little 10%, which can sometimes yield the crazy opportunities you're missing out on. So now what I do and it sounds that you might do something similar I'm not sure I actually purposely take 10 to 20 percent of my time. Just go and talk to random people, yeah we're living in Dubai.

Dr Paul, 6m 2s:

That must be amazing, right?

Dr James, 6m 4s:

yeah, hell yeah, man I mean I've had this, is it right? Well, I think it. I think what helps. I think I quite like to talk to people. I genuinely buzz off that, and maybe not everybody enjoys that. For me personally, I quite like that. So there's been at least two times that I can think of in restaurants in Dubai where I'm just like, hey, someone will just be working.

Dr Paul, 6m 23s:

I'm probably bothered, to be honest, with you and I'll be like, hey, what are you up to?

Dr James, 6m 27s:

And then I'll learn things from them, the things that I can take back to my content and then assume best. It all starts with talking and it never would have happened just like you, if I wouldn't have been in that cafe. Anyway, this podcast is not about me. Let's go back to yourself and let's go back to the apprentice, Paul. There's something I've got to ask you. You know when you were in hopefully we can talk about this as much as you like. Now you know you're in that boardroom and it was. What was it? You, you, you were obviously there, so you'll remember it better than me. It was the final four right three final, final three. That's what it was, right. It's final three, incredible, by the way and it came, you know it. It came down and alan sugar was like right, we're only going to talk if you give me 50 of all your dental practices and 50 of your new businesses. That's what right. Walk us through that because it might be my memory is not the best you were there, so I'm just curious to hear how that panned out and what happened.

Dr Paul, 7m 19s:

No, of course, I'll set the scene first and for those that didn't watch essentially I went in with a scrubs idea. There's a huge gap in the market in the UK if you're in the medical profession, for you know well-fitting scrubs and my family's in textile. So it's something that I've always had the idea of doing and there was validity to it. But I get it's a new business right. So when we get to the, when we're doing the interviews, every single interview because you guys saw 45 seconds, right, but each interview lasts like 45 minutes to an hour and every single interview was very, very similar. It was like Paul, you know you, I know you want to do this new business idea, but there's only five days in a working week, seven days in a in a total week. How are you going to balance all these things? You know you've got to have a life as well. And they weren't wrong. They weren't wrong at all. They were very right and they just said stick to what you do best. So I leave those interviews very, very like perplexed is the only way I had like the biggest migraine, because imagine you're, you've done this for like 10 weeks, you've been in this bubble and all of a sudden, for the first time ever, it became real and you're, you're taken out of the bubble and it's like wait a minute, this is real life now. This isn't just a process. This isn't just a process. This isn't just a tv show. Whatever happens next will affect me for the rest of my life and I can appreciate people would want to have seen it in one way. But you know, I had to think what was best for me in that moment and when we got to the boardroom, only like 12 or 13 hours after the interviews, I hadn't. I didn't sleep that night because I was just thinking in my mind so how am I? I knew it was going to come. I knew something was going to come right. So I was like I want to be in the driving seat in this. I want to be able to do this on my own terms. I think that was the most important thing. So I get to the boardroom and I go to Lord Sugar. I gave him two options. I go, I'm about to take over a new practice. The value is 1.2 million, but I'm happy to go in 250k for 50% and the rest of it obviously would be a loan. So we both put in an equal amount and then the rest of it alone and we go into that and then we can build from that, you know, using the money that goes in from there, right? The third option is we build a squat practice together. So typically a three or four surgery practice, well renovated, would cost about 250 to 300 grand, let's say. And so I gave him those options and he goes oh so I've got options. And I was like yeah, you've got options. And then he laid off me for a little bit and he then fired Trey and Flo and it was the final three. He sends us outside. So you see, as you see him like, send us outside so he can chat to, you know, karen and tim, in those moments I was like all right, all right, I've got this. You know, I've got this, we're good. All the numbers stack up, everything stacks up. I know exactly one thing that I was known for in the apprentice like program was um numbers. That, like I knew my numbers very well, I can do like mathematics very well. So if you ever ask me any question like that, I'll be straight on it. So I come back in and I'm there just quite relaxed. He's having a go at Phil, he's having a go at Rachel, and then this comes to me and he goes. So, Paul, just to be clear, I want everything for 250k, for 50%, and it's like the only way I can describe it is if I'm just a still. And in my mind all I was thinking about was the past couple of years that I've gone through. Not a lot of people know this, but I commuted to London every week for two days to try and become the best clinical dentist I could be. I built my practice from pretty much scratch to get five times more valuation in 15 months. I'd sacrificed a lot in life to be able to do those things. And in my mind I was just thinking, if I do this on these terms, if I went back to my family and I said, oh, so this is what happened, I think they would have been disappointed. And I would have been disappointed in retrospect because they've seen my journey, I've seen my journey, and it would have been almost in retrospect because they've seen my journey, I've seen my journey, and it would have been almost tainting that journey. So at that moment I just said you know what it's, it's not for me. And um, I, I knew it was coming next. Uh, there was no. There's no room or anything like that. Um, so after that, I I knew I made the right decision, because I felt like the world had been lifted off my shoulders when I, as soon as I walked out of that room, I felt incredible, um, I'd done to the best of my ability. I don't think I could have done more of myself. So, um, I was quite, quite relatively pleased, but we had like 24 hours between then and the final to support. You can go home if you want. Not been home in a long time. And, um, I get a. I have a phone call with low sugar, right, uh. But because I've got a lot of respect for him, I won't obviously give the details of that phone call, but let's just say it was, um, a very interesting phone call.

Dr James, 12m 25s:

Oh, okay, okay, and there's kind of questions that you're racing through my mind right now. But I respect, I can imagine. Yeah, I'm not gonna ask.

Dr Paul, 12m 34s:

I don't wanna lie. I've got a lot of respect for him and stuff so and I really enjoyed my time in the process. It was so it was very personality building for me as well. So for me, yeah, I'll keep that one a secret.

Dr James, 12m 49s:

Respect, man, listen, and business is about the personal growth. Yeah, you know, and that, actually, whether you say, when you say no to something or yes to something, everything along those lines, all those experiences grow you and ultimately affect your business, the top line, bottom line, all those other things. So that is the win right there. And you know what, me, being sat in your shoes, and I feel like from a lot of the dentists that I've spoke to as well, I don't think I would have taken that deal either, because this is sorry.

Dr Paul, 13m 15s:

yeah, yeah, I can say it's interesting. So I went to like a conference and, um, all the loads of dentists came up to me and go, if you'd have taken that deal, you wouldn't have been able to show up today. And it's like, wow, it's a bit extreme. But well, I appreciate that, but it is a little bit extreme. So, on one, on one mind, you're thinking well, there's the jubilation. Right, you know, you win the apprentice, you get jubilation. But then then you got the other hand, which is like this is the reality, this is life, and I, you know you gotta do what's best for you well, this is the thing you know greatest, most respect for Lord Sugar, absolutely hold him in high esteem and everything that you said earlier.

Dr James, 13m 52s:

However, ultimately, businessman right and he's going to push for a deal that's very favorable to him and you know, I feel where that came from, was that mindset and I felt like that was not necessarily balanced and fair in that respect. But that's okay, you know, that's just, that's my take and this that's just the game.

Dr Paul, 14m 11s:

That's how it is it is what it is at the end of the day, and, and it's quite, I think my only worry was because obviously I knew about that, like because I got filmed the year before I, I knew that that was, that was what happened, right? So I think what was going through my mind in the nine months of transgress from finishing the filming to airing was, um, how will people take it? You know, uh, you know you're gonna look like the bad guy, or are you gonna? Are people gonna be disappointed in you? And even though, even though none of those things should matter, but in your mind they can matter um, but I think what was really nice was all the papers, like daily mail and everything, all back to me, uh, the public back to me. So, uh, it was wonderful and the support I've received from everyone has been uh, so, so soulwarming is the word I'd use.

Dr James, 15m 0s:

That's good. It's a pretty cool mic drop moment to be able to let them know this side of the table. You know what I mean. So it was never moment to be able to let them know this side of the table. You know what I mean. It was never meant to be.

Dr Paul, 15m 7s:

I never meant for that to happen. I didn't mean to do that mic drop moment, but it just kind of happened. So I'll take it. Obviously Never mind.

Dr James, 15m 16s:

But yeah, no, listen, absolute respect to Lord Sugar and it sounds like you just maybe weren't aligned on that one, and that's fine, and that's fine, and that's fine, and it sounds like reading between the lines things are still amicable between you guys, which is amazing. Let's go back, let's rewind, because this is one thing I really wanted to ask and know about. Let's go back to the start of the show, okay, yeah, and this is the stuff that we can talk about now on this podcast that we couldn't right last time. So this would be really interesting to explore. So I'm just interested because, you know, the one thing I've realized about tv in general and also the apprentice, is what you see doesn't actually fully explain the full dynamics of what's going on behind the scenes, that you just see this quick fire edited thing and in reality, a shot over the course of like three, four days, and there's always all this drama that doesn't go on there, doesn't come on the show. So I guess, okay, if we talk about Instagram versus reality, this is a good question. You've got the gram, you've got TV right and then you've got actual reality. How it is? I'm interested from your experience directly of being on the show what do you feel were the biggest shock moments for you, where you were like right, this is completely not how I expected it. This is completely different.

Dr Paul, 16m 31s:

They don't show this on the tv show versus what the public sees? I'm just curious to know. I think there's a lot of waiting around. Um, there's a lot of like you. You you'll do like your scene with someone and then there's like a big break till you do everything. So everything you see is very linear, right. So it's like all right, so we've done this, we've done a, now we're doing b, now we're doing c, and that's how it shows on the tv screen. That goes from a to b to c, right, but in reality a to b there's like a three, four hour gap, and then b to c, there's another three, four hour gap. So you're kind of just waiting around and like twiddling your thumbs or just waiting in the car just for so you can do the next thing. So a lot of waiting around. But I think what really helped me and it's weird because you think it's really important to look back on your journey, especially when you do something like this it's because I did a Disney TV show when I was at uni I don't know if you knew that and, yeah, filmed in the UK. I was just a supporting actor because they needed a body popper and I can body pop and yeah, that's another thing. And then, um, I got, I got to go on for four episodes. But what that made me do was realize how tv and like how things are filmed, that when it's a set and you go on and you'll do like your scene, and then there's like breaks, right, and then you tell for a bit and then you do another scene. Sometimes you need to redo a scene, like in Disney. That's what we did. So for me, I think I was very accustomed to what it would be like, so it wasn't too big of a shock. But some of the other candidates was a massive shock, massive shock, because there's there's so many things where you've got to. You know you're not just doing the task, the, the cameras are all on you as well and you you've got to make sure that you're always performing like. You're always on task. Even when you're in the house, you're always on task. You're always performing um, because everything is watched and listen.

Dr James, 18m 24s:

Biggest respect to you guys because, having been through somewhat similar process with dentistry, investing, making content not to the same level, obviously, you know I said stop hitting the record button and it's off. Speaking on camera is damn hard, man. It's tough, right people. I didn't realize that I have a newfound respect for news reporters. The second I started making my own content Because they just get up and they just freestyle, don't they? And the camera's just looking at them. You know it takes practice and then I can only imagine that going to the next level whenever that camera is constantly on you and of course that's what makes TV. It's like, you know, when you watch a show it's like 60 minutes and someone has like like full decorum for like 23 hours, 59 minutes of the day, and that one little minute, oh, where the costume slips. That's what gets on tv.

Dr Paul, 19m 12s:

So you just got to watch out for that, right yeah, in apprentice terms, well, that what the equivalent is is, let's say, you're doing a pitch, and in the pitch you might do the most amazing pitch ever, and you stumble for like a second guess. What's going to be shown is that stumble. So you've got to be perfect. You just got to try and be perfect all the way through.

Dr James, 19m 30s:

And then, yeah, there's the pressure of that, but I'm sure, like yourself, you revel in pressure, as do I, so I enjoyed that pressure yeah, you know, there is part of me that feels that way and there's there's a little affirmation that I use on that front and I feel like there's a lot of time when we go through life, it's very easy for us to feel like the pressure is building up on top of us and we're like, oh, why me? And if I just, if you just flip that around, words are powerful and you say try me. Instead I'm like, yeah, let's go. Yeah, I'm getting pumped and I'm like, okay, actually, do you know what? I'm actually in the right place because I can tell. But yeah yeah, you've got to be your own hype man, right, but yeah, anyway, okay, back to the show. Back to the show, okay, cool. So listen, we see the show and listen. Great respect to what what is? I mean, it reiterates the fact that we should all have a huge amount of respect for everybody, all the contestants who are willing to put themselves out there, because it can go really well and it can go down not so well, man, and that content's up there forever. So big respect to everybody who's on the show. I'm curious, naturally let's be real the tasks they're designed to make people do this. You know it's engineered into the show, right, and it happens. We're human beings, that's okay. And what I'm wanting to know is did you guys, were you guys able to like and listen? We want, we definitely want, to be respectful to everybody's on the show and I'm sure it goes for saying no names running along those lines. Did you find that people were very able to just box off? They're like personal relationships and what happened on the TV shows, or was that? Maybe? Was that really tough or how did that look? I'm just curious the dynamics in the house well put it this way.

Dr Paul, 21m 4s:

You know we obviously we had to have a few arguments in the boardroom and things like that. Things got a bit fiery. You know you feel like your life's on the line that's the only way to describe it. But we're all still really good friends. We're all really really good friends. I think one thing that we were really good at I don't know about previous seasons, but we were really good at I don't know about previous um seasons, but we were really good at whatever happens in the boardroom stays in the boardroom and leave it as that. When you go back to the house, that's, it's a clean slate. You know, at the end of the day, we've all gone in there for ourselves. You know we are living together, we are developing friendships. We've gone in there for ourselves. But I think a lot where our season was very different, which I was surprised I'm a fan of the show, right, and when I used to watch the show, it was very like, very argumentative. You know, cut each other down, and that's something I was a bit scared of, because that's just not my I wouldn't say it's my natural personality, right. So I went in there with the mindset of you know, you don't need to clip anyone else's wings or you don't need to dim anyone else's light to make your own shine brighter, and quite a few people on my season had that mindset where we would lift each other up rather than bring each other down well, I think it's the best.

Dr James, 22m 15s:

I mean there's there's a little bit of a lesson in there, not just for the tv show, but also life as well. Do you know what I mean? If you take, like, if someone has that mindset where they're trying to diminish others, I swear if they just take that same energy that they use and just channeling in the shining brighter, they wouldn't have to even think about pushing others away and making themselves appear better via that technique, because it would just be obvious they'd be able to shine so bright that it was just clearly apparent. And I really think that's an amazing mindset and it's actually very fortunate that everybody shared that on the show.

Dr Paul, 22m 47s:

I think that's what came across as well, and what's interesting as well is, you know, for all I know, probably the majority of the audience will be dentists, if I'm not mistaken Right.

Dr James, 22m 56s:

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Dr Paul, 22m 58s:

I think we don't realize how lucky we are as a profession to have this sort of community that we are, because obviously I was speaking to there were like accountants, recruitment consultants, doctors, pharmacists. No other profession is similar to ours where we've got this community that we travel 99 right, apart from facebook groups, whatever, but we exclude that out right then. Um, you know, we've got such a supportive community of each other, uh, where we really lift each other up. You know, we provide courses for each other to help each other, to help each other develop both clinically and in life as well. Like my mentors, my greatest mentors are dentists that have helped me in so many aspects of life and you don't get that in any profession.

Dr James, 23m 40s:

So we're really fortunate yeah, shout out to dentists, they're good at sharing the love amongst each other and, yeah, by and large, as you say, massively supportive. And I don't think we realize that because we've never necessarily experienced other industries. But, yeah, interesting, okay, cool. So, tim, karen, lord Sugar, I'm just wondering do you know, outside of that boardroom, how much interaction do you have with them?

Dr Paul, 24m 3s:

Yeah, good question. So I think with Tim, because he was a previous you know contestant, he was obviously a lot more empathetic to what we were going through and it was I learned a lot off Tim, like he would really give some really good nuggets, you know, like pearls of wisdom and things like that, because when they're following you on task they are sat there as well and I said there's a bit of waiting around so you can interact right. Um, with uh, lord sugar you don't really get to spend much time. It's mainly in the boardroom. So that's why, in a weird way, where, um, me and lord sugar really connected was when I was in the bottom three as pm. So that's where we really connected, where we really got to know each other, because I only had two other people in the room and I was really able to kind of tell my truth at that moment, even though obviously I was one foot out the door. But it was. That was kind of a blessing to have gone into the bottom three in a weird way at an early point.

Dr James, 25m 4s:

You know what You're actually bringing a memory back to me, if I've got this right, didn't he insist at one stage that you had to be the PM?

Dr Paul, 25m 12s:

No, no no, oh did I.

Dr James, 25m 13s:

I've misremembered that there was some sort of you were the PM in one of the shows very early, weren't you the project manager? How about?

Dr Paul, 25m 20s:

just before halfway through, I was the PM for the Formula E task.

Dr James, 25m 25s:

You know the one where I made and you put yourself forward for that.

Dr Paul, 25m 28s:

I put myself forward for that, made like an Indian Formula E car, which is jokes respect.

Dr James, 25m 35s:

Okay, I must have missed that episode then, because I feel like I watched the whole series. There's one I didn't watch. It must be not. I go, I was.

Dr Paul, 25m 44s:

I made him a Formula E car with the Indian flag on it respect.

Dr James, 25m 49s:

Okay, well, you know what that's. Well, that's the thing you know with lord sugar, right? You know what I've always noticed? Yeah, and going back and watching the series, do you know what he hates? Above all else, he really dislikes when people hide in the background and don't contribute. He'd rather that you came forward and someone didn't necessarily go well, something didn't necessarily go well, then hide. Those are always the first people to go right, the people who don't really contribute.

Dr Paul, 26m 11s:

I've always noticed that, yeah, it happened this year. It happened this year with um, you know, with ollie, like that was the predominant reason that lord sugar. Uh, let him go out the process. But I think, uh, one in my kind. In my mind this is what I was thinking. It was weird because you're really overwhelmed. So for the first two tasks or something, I never really quite got there. But then they almost flipped a switch where I just thought, if I continue doing it like this, I'm never going to get noticed or anything. And then all of a sudden I started taking risks and even though some of them didn't pay off, it started getting his attention because they were calculated risks right, there was as long as you're taking a risk, but there's a thought process behind that risk, like a logical thought process. He likes that if, if you're doing things just just for the sake of doing it, because you want to get attention or whatever, you can see right through it yeah, it's so true.

Dr James, 27m 7s:

I've always noticed that consistently, and that's the thing. There's a I mean put it. Put it like this if Lord Sugar thinks it, and he's done as well as he has, there must be something to that mindset. And that's what business is about, man. You just keep rolling the dice, just keep doing things that have a logical basis to it and then eventually it's just an odd thing that something is gonna click. And for me, that's why one of the most important mindsets and business is tenacity, like you literally see. You literally see everything you do as the win in and of itself because you tried something and eventually you just keep doing that. Man, it might take a year, it might take two years, might take three years, ten years, it doesn't matter. The point is that the learnings are gonna make that lesson very valuable. All that effort is gonna make the outcome extremely valuable because of all the stuff we learned along the way.

Dr Paul, 27m 50s:

Eventually you keep mining, Eventually you'll get to the pot of gold, right? That's that picture, it's that analogy, right?

Dr James, 27m 57s:

The diamonds, yeah, and the cave and people mining through, yeah, I like that a lot, okay, cool. So that is behind the scenes on the show and that's the stuff that people don't get to see necessarily. I'm just curious. We've talked about the show. We've talked about how it's affected your life insofar as your other business interests and things you've created around dentistry. What about dentistry itself? What are the ways that it's helped, and maybe some of the unexpected ways as well that you didn't really see coming?

Dr Paul, 28m 26s:

yeah, great question. I think, first of all, um, like the, the pressure that I felt when filming it especially was, you know, because obviously we talked about how amazing the dental community is, but there is like a little subsect where they can, you know, really come for you, right, they can really really come for you. So I think there was always that in the back of my mind. I never wanted to, um, put a negative light on the dental profession. One of the main reasons why I went on was to create a positive light, where you know where patients feel nervous coming to the dentist and maybe I can give them something to talk about when they go visit their dentist, where they see us instead of just as someone who's just in our surgery. They see us in like a real life situation Because, if I'm not mistaken, no dentist has ever done like a reality TV show like that, if I'm not mistaken.

Dr James, 29m 16s:

Yeah not to my knowledge either.

Dr Paul, 29m 18s:

So I thought, well, let's try and change that kind of point of view. But in terms of the marketing's been unreal, like unbelievable. Uh, you can't pay for that sort of marketing and we've got so many, so many new patients. And, uh, what's nice as well, because I was buying a practice at that time and one advice I'll always give is do not buy a practice while you're trying to do tv things. Do very, very big things that you're trying to do. I did them at the same time. It was very stressful, uh, because the day I got fired from the show when it aired was the day I took over the practice and the day I also flew to miami, so it all happened in one day. Um big 24 hours right there wow hours. But where you know, when you take over practice, you probably think you're going to lose about 10% of patients in transition. That percentage was reduced heavily for us because the apprentice, because I kept mentioning pudsy as well, which is good.

Dr James, 30m 17s:

Chachi, sorry pudsy, losing my Slipper the tongue there, pudsy, pudsy. I used to live close to Pudsey as well. I used to live in Leeds. So there we go. Pudsey just got some more air time, the biggest of them all, the most exposure of all on the Dentists Who Invest podcast. There we are, boom yeah there you go. There we go, shout out Pudsey. Now the patients are going to come really flocking to you. No, no, no it's going to go from the point of view of marketing? I mean, obviously the patients are going to come and want to see dr Paul, who's on the tv, and what have you? And do you know what? It's interesting? Right, because obviously you've got your dental practices, and how many have you got? Now, about two dental practices, two dental practices, right, and they're going to want to come and see dr Paul, or at least some of them, yeah, and then you obviously just have to figure out how you can kind of harness that goodwill and maybe assign them other associates and what have you? So, because what, what, what might be it was in danger of happening to you is where you're just like seven days a week busy doing stuff, and what have you?

Dr Paul, 31m 22s:

honestly, that'd kill you off. If you're doing seven days a week, clinical, that'd be so hard.

Dr James, 31m 27s:

It's, this is the thing and that's the temptation, right. So you have to think about how you can leverage that and harness it. Okay, brilliant. So we've covered the show. We've covered everything that you've been doing since the show. The impact on your dentistry. What does the future look like for Paul? What's on the horizon that you can speak about?

Dr Paul, 31m 43s:

yeah, I mean there's, there's a couple of things actually, so the um. The first one is sorry, I'm just gonna sneeze one sec. All good, perfect, all right. So there's a couple of things actually, uh. So the first thing is obviously, try and grow the vt dental group, try and get to five practices in the next three years, uh. The second thing is I'd love to do one more reality tv show where there's like celebrity traitors or you know something like that, just for just you know one that's a bit more light-hearted in a way. Um, instead of where you're being that pressure constantly, um. And then also I'm releasing an app at the back in the middle of next year where and we're doing the beta testing for it as well basic what the problem we have at the moment without, because obviously patent's pending right, so I can only give a little bit, but it's basically to tackle the um, the abroad dental problem that we're having at the moment. You know, typically people going to turkey and, uh, there's a lack of consent in some of those cases um, as well as an ease to connect patients to dentists as well as connecting dentists to other dentists. So it'll be, it'll be. It's a really, really interesting app. It's always been at the back of my mind to do and I finally had the opportunity to to start to get the the wheels rolling.

Dr James, 33m 1s:

Do you know what? Huge respect on that and looking out for that, because there's a clear need for it, because we've all seen situations where that hasn't panned out favorably for the patient and it really can destroy your life. There's definitely need for that, Paul good. Two final things I'd love to ask before we run off this podcast today. This is a really super duper important in question in question. In my opinion, whenever it comes to somebody who's achieved anything in life, they have to figure out how they can get more out of each hour for their time. Right, and here's the thing. Put it like this do you know for yourself if you were running the two dental practice, being a dentist in the two dental practices, building your own app, running your fashion brand, running your instagram and everything along those lines, right, there'd be nothing of you. Not only is that impossible, right? Or maybe you could do it like 10 minutes every day, but not to the same standard, right, but there'd also be nothing of you left. So I'm just wondering how do you manage all of that? How does that look like? Is it like building a team, but getting amazing at delegating Any hacks you can offer us in that front?

Dr Paul, 34m 7s:

Yeah, I think one thing that I definitely struggled with at the beginning is finding balance, because you know you mentioned all those things and none of those things are actually like your life as well. So you know you've got relationships, relationship with your family as well. That's so important, so that's almost like 50% of your life, but there's a whole nother 50% that you got to try and balance as well. But I think the thing that's really helped me is my team and my family. So, for example, what I realized was that I needed a business partner in the Vici Dental Group. There was no way I was going to be able to balance those other things without having a business partner. And I've actually partnered up with my cousin, dr Ricky, who's a dentist, fabulous dentist, and he's also my cousin as well, and we went to uni together and we've got a very similar kind of mindset of where we want to be and everything aligns. And that's been the biggest blessing for me, because where he's almost taken, you know, um, a more hands-on approach, it's allowed me to give me a bit more of a license to uh, do do other things. And that's one of the reasons why I didn't go ahead with Lord Sugar as well, because, especially in dentistry, you need a partner who's a dentist, who can help you on the ground, and, whereas you know as fabulous as Lord Sugar is in terms of growing things, I would have been swamped with everything. Also, having an amazing network within my family are really supportive members of my team. So I've got a social media coordinator who handles like the instagram forces me to do them. Oh, you need to do them. And I'm like, ah, it's okay, we'll leave the position there you need to do? Um. So I think, in what I've got, in all those aspects that you just mentioned, I've got a partner. That's what it is.

Dr James, 35m 47s:

That's the nugget boom, there's the life hack right there, and I fully agree. Right, it's like you become the bottleneck whenever it comes to whatever you're doing. If it's just you and you got to figure out how you can bring other people in, be that team members, partners, of course, that's a whole friggin 10 webinar series of podcasts in and of itself. You know how that's done, but at least if we can guide someone in the right direction, just how do people get so much more out of the time? That's what we're looking for today, which is awesome. So thank you for that wisdom. Second thing, Paul and this is a really lovely thing to wrap up on as well Naturally comes to success. A big part of success is stepping outside of your comfort zone, and they'll be, we all our comfort zone it's. We can expand it, but we always form a new one at some degree. So let's say there's someone listening to this podcast and they were thinking themselves right, what is something that I can do in terms of getting myself out there more, or what can I do to grow my business? How does that look for me? Is there any general words of wisdom or reframes that you can offer them, either in terms of mindset or practical advice, or maybe just a little bit of both Things that have really helped you.

Dr Paul, 36m 58s:

I'll tell you a little story. And essentially, when I was an FD, I always had these ideas and what I wanted to do, but I had no pathway. I had no idea how I was going to get there or what I was going to be able to do with it, and what I did was I went to like a conference, just to you know, just to network, and I won a free ticket for it and I thought I didn't know anyone. I was just going to go and just see what happens and hopefully I'll take something away from it. And I got to the conference and I sit down and the guy next to me turned out to be Dr Nick Sethi, who I was just chatting to, and he goes oh, why didn't you? You know, come on my course and I could teach you a few things and fast forward three or four years. I ended up working for him for two years and learning a lot of my clinical side from him. Um, still back at that same conference, I was at the bar and I was just ordering a drink and I just feel like a hand go over my hair. And it was, um, it was Jin, and Jin goes. Oh, same hair, come over here, yeah, how it happened and, uh, you know I went over and you know he's having a chat and I just expressed I was like I've got these ideas and he was like, okay, what we're going to do is gonna have a phone call. Let's talk through everything, um, and let's start to create the pathway. And, um, they they've been jinn and kisha be my biggest mentors since I've I left dental school and everything I've got today, um, a part of that is thanks to them, um, but also on that, in that conference, I also met, uh, someone really interesting. Actually. It was, uh, someone that's really helped me develop kind of more in like a personal and business level as well. Uh, but she never likes to get mentioned, uh, but, um, she, if I didn't basically go to that conference where I just made that first step, didn't know what was going to happen with that first step. Nothing could have happened, but that one step opened up so many more new opportunities for more steps to happen. So take the first step.

Dr James, 39m 1s:

Take the first step.

Dr Paul, 39m 2s:

Boom Is the distilled bit of wisdom there, and I think there's another little bit of distilled wisdom in there too, and it's talk to people yeah, exactly like if I didn't mention what I was thinking about, then I wouldn't have connected with those people and then these things would never have happened, like I would never have gone on the apprentice without you know the confidence that you know jinn and kish gave to me, uh, when I was going on. So, um, you know, everything happens for a reason, but you've got to take the first step. Uh, people will open the door, but you've got to go through the door.

Dr James, 39m 32s:

Yeah, I think you know what I really genuinely think is a little bit of wisdom. It'd be interesting to hear your take on this. Try, where possible, to keep as many people as you've ever met on good terms. And that's bloody hard sometimes, right, because you really have to go out of your way to be considerate and empathetic. Listen, it's not always possible. There's that little subsection of people that the only way you can be in their life is if you're serving them and you're not getting a good deal. But that's like 1% man, 99% of people, people. If you give them positive impression and keep them on good terms, then there's always scope that they can introduce you to someone. Opportunities. You know what you know in life. I think people make success really complicated.

Dr Paul, 40m 16s:

I think if you just do the basics, like speaking to people and networking, extremely well oh my god man 100%, and that's, that's all it comes to, because you have no idea how much you're going to align with someone else. They might be thinking the exact same thing, you might be the only two people in the world thinking that thing, but when they come together, then it'll. You can almost start to create it into reality. So you put yourself out there, the uh. They always say you know, uh, the hardest step to take is the first step in. And oh well, actually, no, let's rewind that. And so they always say that the first step is the hardest and the journey to a thousand miles always starts with the first step. Love it.

Dr James, 40m 56s:

One more thing just add in there as well. When it comes to the networking effect, content is like that on steroids. It sounds like you've been on the right side of that as well, Paul, sorry, just that I know you can finish it. No, no, no, it's steroids. It sounds like you've been on the right side of that as well, Paul, sorry, just that.

Dr Paul, 41m 8s:

I know you can finish that. No no, no, it's cool. It's cool. You made a good point, actually, like, let's say you're afraid to, you don't know what conference to attend or you don't know what to do. Just start making content about what you want to do, and eventually people will come to you. So I think content is a brilliant thing. That didn't exist very much like 20 years ago, or in a different format at the very least, but now you can always, you can almost take that first step quite easily through content.