Dr James, 0s:

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Naveed, 42s:

So I I feel like kind of rewinding, because anybody who's missed that first bout, I was I was basically saying to you to yourself that obviously in the last six months, I feel like as a student, I have leveled up who I am as an individual, what I stand for, how I study, how I approach things, and and kind of having foresight now. And I think as a student, maybe you could reflect on this as well, but we don't really look bigger picture enough. Um sometimes we're just caught in the moment. We're just like, right, I need to study, I need to get year one done, I need to get year two done, and that's it. We're not really looking at what is this leading to, right? So a lot of the time speaking to those that have been there and done that is helpful, but we don't touch base enough with our peers. And I think when we understand what people are going through emotionally and mentally that are in the same boat as you, then that's where you find the gaps that you might need to put your energies into. So I don't know, you tell me what was it like at uni for you? Like, did you have that kind of experience as well where maybe you didn't look bigger picture or were you different mindset?

Dr James, 1m 40s:

I I I thought completely differently whenever I was a student. I just did do not see the same the world the same way as I do now at all. I was so I just saw things with blinkers on. I was like, we do this, then we do that, then we qualify, then we get a job, and blah blah blah. And when I was a student, right? I remember when I was a student, I um I was just like, man, I don't really have to, I'm just gonna get this done and then think about the rest of my life, you know, because I'm gonna be chilling after that, I'm gonna be a dentist. And now I look back and I'm like, wow, there was so many opportunities there. As in that was just a completely crazy that I thought like that, because there are kids out there who are 21, 22, 23. I read a book uh a little while ago and it was called Retired at 21, right? And that sounds to a lot of people like, oh, they roll their eyes and whatever, but it was just it was basically just talking about the new new age of uh digital businesses and how that for some of these kids out there the penny drops so you can do this stuff incredibly young, like when they're 15, like when they're 16, and then they have they go through their rocky horror cutscene, right? Okay, you know where he's like running up the steps and punching the meat and the music's playing da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da, all of that, right? And you know that scene they say that every business goes through that scene, every individual goes through that scene, and it realistically takes like four or five years for somebody to get there, but they do that because they do that so young that penny drops with regards to all that stuff incredibly early for them, and they can potentially get themselves to a stage where they've basically just checked out of the system, they've they've exited the matrix at that age, you know. And I guess, I guess, with relevance to this podcast and with relevance to the audience and what have you, you know. It doesn't I I would hope that when people hear that, that we're not coming across like, how can I say this? saying that that's something that everybody can aspire towards. I hope that's received in the sense that it makes us think to ourselves, right, like wow, this can be done. Whoa, this is crazy, this is out there. What can I learn from those individuals rather than just reject it and just be like, well, that's that's fake, because it's so easy to do that, isn't it? It's so easy to be cynical about everything.

Naveed, 3m 48s:

Let me let me play devil's advocate here, right? Do you think that those people, although as much as we as you know, grass is always green, right? We all aspire, we wish that we could have been retired at 21. Let's be real. Are they not missing out a massive chunk of life experience by not going through it? What do you think?

Dr James, 4m 9s:

I I actually do agree with you because if I was that age and I was financially free, I would have just been there were so many experiences that I went through that were good for me. As in, they made me grow and become more ch mature. And I think if that would have happened to me too fast, I would have just been the most insufferable human being of all time, right? Because it definitely is you're law, it it's it's way more likely that that stuff will go to your head at that age, right? Like it's just way more likely. Um I hope I wouldn't have been, but there's definitely a greater likelihood. Yeah. So you are right, like it's definitely not all about the one lens in terms of that one lens, the lens of wealth and the well the lens of making money. You know, it's there's there's a lot more to us as human beings. So yeah, I do agree. I would I I I I I I wish you could have, I wish there was some way that you could have that, but also have those experiences that grind you as well, because that's the ultimate person right there. Usually it's one or the other, really. Not always.

Naveed, 5m 19s:

I think I think you know what it's it's kind of like it's it's kind of like you know, those people that win the lottery and they've never been rich. And then like they they never hold on to the money, do they? There's there's like a study, wasn't there, or a statistic? Uh, and and I'm going off like I'm paraphrasing almost here, but hardly anyone that's ever won the lottery that hasn't come from money or hasn't grafted for money has actually retained that level of financial freedom. They've always blown it because they don't have that life experience of what to do with it, right? Now I get it, uh, you know, there is a caveat here, these youngsters they might have found the way to graft quick and efficiently to then become retired at 21. But you know, going through the rough and and and the tough parts of life is is so important. I remember like when I was so when I was about that age, 20 mid-20s, let's say, right? I I landed a quite a decent job as a national account manager. So that's like my previous life. And I was getting, you know, if you if you add up with the the car allowances, the housing allowances, and and all the benefits and bonuses, I was getting, you know, beyond a six-figure salary. And for somebody in their mid-20s getting beyond a six-figure salary back then, what is unheard of, and I didn't deserve it. I'll be completely honest with you. I think um uh maybe my CV was was uh overly glamorized. Um I'm not gonna lie about it. Half of that probably wasn't even real, right? Um, and I'm on your podcast because I can I can almost do a little bit of what you do, which is which is chat for England, right? Or or Ireland in your case, right? Uh and the and the idea the idea is um that sells. That really does sell. So if you if you can do that, people just buy into you for your personality. The problem with that was I was getting paid a hell of a lot for doing not so much, and I kind of thought that was life. I just thought, well, you know, whatever, I'll just I'll just roll through the punches, I'll get I'll get what it is, I'll get paid for it for just being me. And a bit like you're saying, it is quite you know, it's it's an insufferable type of personality because then you believe you believe the hype. So you kind of walk around like you own the place, um, but then you don't have the the the whereabouts or the knowledge of how to look after that money because you just think it's going to be endless and you think you deserve it. So, because of that, I ended up, I still remember this. I would eat at the most lavish restaurants that a guy my age should not have been eating at. I was I bought a uh a BMW 3 series, I bought it on finance. The finance payment was stupid, but back then you don't think about it, you don't think about interest rates, you don't think about uh terms for payments, nothing. You just think, well, I can afford three grand a month, I'll do it. So there was, you know, you just you haven't got that life experience. So this is what I mean that it is a dangerous path uh to step on, which is why I'm very personally speaking, I'm so happy and grateful I've got people like yourself and others in my network that I can learn from, whether that's directly or whether that's from listening to your podcasts or your seminars, webinars, whatever it might be, and other people that that have said, you know, this is what we've encountered, this is where we're at now, and these are the learnings in between. And I always say it takes a smart man to learn from you know your mistakes, but it takes a genius to learn from someone else's. Because you have to like bury that prior, right? You really have to bury that ego and say, Do you know what? I'm not gonna take that risk and I'm gonna learn. Well, I didn't do that, I've only just started doing that because, like I say, I've got people like you now uh and others that that are really paving the way. And and I just wish in hindsight I'd done that when I was when I was younger, but you know, that that's how the cookie crumbles, isn't it?

Dr James, 8m 39s:

Well, well, you know what? There's one yes to virtually everything that you said there, and in fact, everything really, you know, that's all true. And I guess what that reminds me of is it's the older Daj. It's it's about how much you earn, but it's also about how you earn it, right? Like that is the equally important, if not more important side of the equation, it doesn't get as much airtime. So, what I mean, I mean, there's those articles that you see on the internet from time to time, and it's like middle class, middle class 200k a year, but broke as hell, right? Yeah, because what goes comes in goes out. And what you have to remember is, right, if you're employed and you're earning 200 grand, you're only really getting 100k in your hand, right? And you know, I say only really like that's nothing, but like that is good money, obviously. But if you've got two kids in private school, if you've got a nice car and you got a really nice mortgage on a nice house, that's gonna go real fast, right? And then all of a sudden you look, you have the appearance of someone who's wealthy. You probably are wealthy, like you are, I guess, but you're still in that zone, right, where you're gonna have to be doing that for like 20, 30 years to get to the point where you eventually become financially free. So I guess what that reminds me of is like, yes, you're earning your money, um, but we're because of the boat that we're because of the train that we're on, or because of the that how that specific road looks, like that is the destination. That's how that looks. And I'm not saying that you shouldn't do that. I'm just saying that we want to play games that we want to win, right? Play games that you want the outcome of, right? And if you want more, then you might have to do different things or see things in a different way. But the trouble is what are those things? What's real and what's not real? And that's what I see a lot whenever it comes to finance, because there's so much hype and crap like that on Twitter and what have you. Um it's genuinely hard to discern. Like it's genuinely hard to discern, you know, and even for people who and especially for people who don't really necessarily know that much about finance, like they literally don't know what real looks like or what normal is. So they kind of tar everything with one brush, and then that holds them back from making the right decisions because they just think everything's a scam. You see people like that as well all the time, right? And um, you know, I'm not saying this in any way, I'm definitely not saying this in a way to like be diminishing of anybody, you know. I'm these are observations, and I I'm sharing them from the point of view uh of the point of view that they are interesting observations, and I really think the remedy is just to go and learn about money and how it works, because then you've got more of a nose for this stuff. Just to circle back to what I was saying a second ago, it's about how much you earn, but it's also about how you earn it, right? And then if we kind of take that to the next level, it's like, okay, cool. So let's say that we invest in assets, or let's say that we have a business which has some sort of recurring revenue model, then we know that there's gonna be a certain level of income that comes in every month that is not necessarily linked to our time. Because those are basically the two the only two ways that you can do that. I mean, it comes from assets, right? Like it literally comes from assets, right? Um, and if we're gonna talk about assets that give you cash flow, there's only really like three. I mean, it's either gonna be property, a business, or you can use stocks and funds that way, but it's not advisable because you really want to roll them up and have them compound. Have you ever seen on those investing apps where it's like they have a fund and then at the end of the funds name and brackets, it'll say income, it'll say INC or ACC. Have you noticed that? And you know what that means? No, yeah, this is really cool. This is a brilliant factoid, right? ACC is an accumulation fund. So what that means is um what that means is that it automatically reinvests the dividends in your behalf. Oh income fund will pay you the dividends every month or whatever, you know, periodically, yeah, and they will appear as cash in the balance of your ISA or your pension or whatever account they're in. So if you want to, if you haven't, this is a big slip-up that a lot of people go through, right? It's like they have their money in INC funds, they want their 10% a year from the SP, but where the where the actual breakdown of that 10% comes from is six percent increase in value of the stocks, capital appreciation, and 4%, 3 to 4% is from the dividends, right? So you're not getting your 10% unless you're manually reinvesting the money if you have an income fund, it's an ACC fund, right? But anyway, we went that I just love that. I think that was one of the coolest things ever.

Naveed, 13m 28s:

I don't know. I had no idea about it.

Dr James, 13m 30s:

Yeah, is it is cool the right word? I don't know. I just like little stuff like that, yeah.

Naveed, 13m 34s:

No, no, no, it is. I I think because most people wouldn't know that I don't I don't know that. I mean, well, one thing, one thing you did say, right? Uh whether you meant pension i in in its most raw form, or whether you meant pension in terms of like a future fund. But I know recently in the UK, whether you've got your you know your finger in the pulse with that, but uh the Labour government have have obviously moved pensions now to is it 68, 67 years old that you can only claim like 25% of it, and then when you're 72 or 74, you can claim the rest of it.

Dr James, 14m 3s:

I think some I believe that's for the NHS pension. I think SIPs, as in private pensions, are still 57. Okay, but most I think they're actually currently 55, but they will be they will be 57 in 2027. So for most people listening to this podcast, it's gonna be 57 if we can get it.

Naveed, 14m 21s:

Okay, okay, okay, perfect, perfect. Because I I've I've always had a qualm with uh with the idea of uh a pension. I mean, a pension fund if it's done privately, if you're doing it yourself, I think it's is is uh maybe you will disagree with this. Uh maybe you won't. Um, I guess that's probably your shtick, really. But uh for me, it's very much a case of like the raw form of a pension. I I try to educate people that it's it's not worth it. Do it yourself. Manage manage your own portfolio, manage your own investments, understand it, learn from the likes of yourself, learn from all the information online. But as you quite rightly said before, just make sure you're going through the right avenues because there's so much BS online nowadays, right? That people end up being scammed. So I think raising the awareness and bringing more light to it is so important. But a pension in itself, you're paying someone to do something you can do yourself, and then you're not getting the return on it anyway. So, you know, if you're gonna manage it, keep it simple, just do it in the SP and do it yourself. So I don't I've never understood why people don't do this. Why is it so hard for people to grip this? You tell me.

Dr James, 15m 19s:

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Naveed, 18m 36s:

And I'm sorry, what was what was the what was the tax roughly on that?

Dr James, 18m 39s:

So you said they taxed off that when you when you would I I believe it was something there was like an extra 25% levy on your withdrawals, I believe. So it basically doubled the tax on money that was over that. It was it was proportional, right? So it was only the money that was over that limit when you withdrew. So if your pension was 2 million, the limit was 1 million for simple math. If you took out 100k a year, normally you'd it would be taxed at a certain level, but there was an extra 25% on that tax, on on the extra half, basically. But anyway, it's complicated. But anyway, so um I was gonna say, where was I where was I going with that? Yeah, so anyway, um, that was a thing, it's no longer a thing. I believe it was was it was it Rishi Sunak scrapped it, maybe, but they will a thousand percent bring that back, right? Because it's a big old honey trap, right? Like you put the money in and then they've got it, and then if they change the rules, you you can't get it. Like that's literally the point, right? Like it's already in there, yeah. So if you think about it, if someone everybody's always encouraged to do that, and then it'll bring it back, which in my opinion they categorically will do at some stage, uh, because the pension, yeah, it's it's a big there's a lot of money in pensions, it's too juicy for the government not to not to interfere with it. Uh, but yeah, just to round that off super duper quick, uh, all I was gonna say is if you begin contributing relatively early in your career, you're way more likely to exceed that threshold when it does return, if you ask me.

Naveed, 20m 21s:

I've got a question off that then. So, so this is this is almost like a lag, isn't it? There's a there's almost like a legacy mindset generation to generation. We get fed financial advice from the generation above us, the government takes advantage of that, and then I guess we as a generation will be telling our kids don't trust the government and pensions, do it yourself. Is there now almost a risk that they will then get involved with uh private investments because people will slowly, I mean, the generations coming, they will slowly be forced away from a traditional pension and more into a maybe a private portfolio. Is is there a risk now that the the government are gonna say, well, we're losing money here because no one's taking a traditional pension? We now need to find a way to dig into these upcoming generations. How can you see that panning up?

Dr James, 21m 8s:

Yeah, well, I mean, if they need money, they'll just look for places that they can generate tax from, right? There's only there's only two ways a government can make more money. They can increase taxes or they can print more money. Uh there's only two ways, right? Uh so it depends how cornered they are at the time, doesn't it? I guess. And I think everything is on the cards. I mean, people talk about the them rating ISIS and changing the rules on those. If you actually look up how much wealth in this country is stored in ISIS versus how much is in pensions, it's something like a factor of 50 more in pensions, basically. Because they've been around for so much longer, right? Yeah, of course. And everyone has a pension, or at least lots of people do, because it's usually arranged through their work. Um, you got a cat, by the way? I have two. Oh, you can do that.

Naveed, 21m 55s:

Yeah, I'm foster I'm fostering cats. One of them's leaving next week.

Dr James, 21m 57s:

So uh Oh, that's nice. Anyway, not to die. guess. Where were we? What were we just talking about? You said the the the the there were there's a lot more pensions than there are uh ISIS pro proportionally there's so much more uh stored in pensions because ISIS ISIS haven't been around that long ISIS been around like 15 10 years before people call like peps they had different names and it was only it was only 3k that you could put in and I believe that you used to get taxed on the dividends in them um but yeah this is all obscure finance factoids but yeah ISIS have not been around that long that's what that's why when someone's a nice and millionaire it's like really people talk about that like it's you know it's it's it's quite impressive right because you've obviously been able to grow your money somehow you know um but yeah ISA has not been around that long pensions have been around forever ever you know and most people have pensions even if they haven't set one up themselves because it's through their workplace and then the other thing to remember is that 95 I heard a crazy stat the other day number of people in how what percentage of people in the UK have opened in ISA five that's a lot you've asked you nailed it. I actually kind of gave it away there because I said I said 90 and then I cut myself back so you probably figured that one out no I was trying to do it I was trying to do it based off of uh uh the stat you said earlier that uh a lot more people have got uh pensions right so or that's more the the the the traditional roots I was just thinking surely it can't be I was gonna go a lot higher to be honest with you because I thought surely like uh people are investing in their futures but clearly not five flipping percent of the UK population have an ISA bananas right um I must admit though dentists are better in my experience it's it's proportionally higher I think it's maybe like 20 to 30 percent uh oh dentists who have ISIS because well I mean I need to get some actual data on that you know that's purely anecdotal it's just me licking my finger and putting it in the air a little bit uh but the reason I say that is because when I pick up the phone to people when we get to talking about this stuff it tends to come up and usually most people have ISIS but then again what you have to remember is by the sheer fact that we picked up the phone to each other there's a good chance that they've self-selected as somebody who's into finance in the first place and we get to talking because they're already interested in it whereas I probably wouldn't really attract people that aren't as much so yeah it would be good to get some objective statistics on that. But I definitely I definitely reckon dentists as a rule of thumb more of them proportionally have ices but yeah what is categorically true is that only five percent of the UK population have ices and one more teeny thing just to round that off when we do get to talking about the dentist ices there's I could probably out of having that conversation maybe like a hundred two hundred times probably probably more probably probably more than that I don't know um I reckon there's only ever been maybe two three people that I've thought to myself you have it nailed like this is just completely optimized as in this can't physically be any better than what you have most of the time there's something to tweak for other people most of the time whether that be a better platform or a better fund or reduce the fees or whatever there's always a little teeny teeny teeny thing. Even if I'm just tell them there and then that's fine right but yeah it's so what I'm trying to say is that of the 5% who do have ISIS the people who are using it like to the very best they possibly can is like maybe like point on there we are that is nuts.

Naveed, 25m 40s:

I've I've got to ask you something right and this is this is something that I guess some of the younger folk argue I think getting closer to my age now I'm gonna be 39 next month for example so I'm maybe almost sitting on the fence but I don't know whether I can articulate this well enough let me try right so people almost say what's the point of investing so heavily for the future when I'm not going to use that much money when I'm older because all of the drive and the passion and the crazy things I want to do in my in my younger years that's going to be gone then I'm not gonna want to drive a Ferrari when I'm you know 60 or 70. I'm not gonna be bothered about living a lavish lifestyle and eating at fancy restaurants yeah I might go here and there but it's it's never going to be as much as like you know the Instagram years right and the TikTok years of like your 20s and your 30s. Why should I invest so much in my future when I can just use it now enjoy that time and just be more just comfortable you know in my in my later life. So surely you get this this this asked how do you deal with it what's your advice because I'm speaking to students all the damn time and this is this is what they're always saying. So what's your thoughts on that?

Dr James, 26m 48s:

It's it's the eternal quandary right it's the eternal quandary yeah that and absolutely that is categorically true and I feel like there is I'm actually going to say something right now that's slightly counterintuitive and it's actually a really big way that you can poke a hole in a lot of invertic advice out there right so you think about it it's kind of like going off the logic and what we've just said right it's kind of like you have this pie right that comes in every month and that that is your income right and it's all about how we divide up the pie. Right? So if the pie is this size and we want to put this much away for a future but we want to take some more of the pie and have some fun in the here and noise there's two versions of us right there's here and no and there's a future the past that already happened it's gone right so when it comes to our money it's either right now or it's at some point in the future yeah so yeah what you're saying is and what you're what you're articulating is that a lot of people feel like they're not sure how to slice and dice that pie, right? That's it.

Naveed, 27m 55s:

Yeah.

Dr James, 27m 56s:

Here's the slightly counterintuitive thing which is maybe a little controversial but I'm gonna say it anyway. We love it on this podcast my friend I think you just have to be real right you know and it's it's I'm not saying that this is easy to do I'm definitely not making it out that this is easy to do at all what is about to come out of my mouth think about it that whole debate and argument is precluded on the pie staying the same size. Because if the pie does this then all of a sudden and what I'm doing in my hands people who are listening on the podcast is I'm I'm making them bigger right we're we're gonna big pie now big pie.

Naveed, 28m 33s:

Big pie.

Dr James, 28m 34s:

Yeah a big old pie uh then what that means is that you actually have more you actually potentially have enough to do both and dentists do that without even realizing it right and here's why they do it here's why they do it Navid right because think about even maxing up your eye make maxing out your ISI every single year. 2000 pounds and by the way that's post tax that money right so that realistically means you've earned like 30 to 40 somewhere between those numbers right most people would kind of never dream of having 40k from their pay slip every month right spare or their payslip every year spare right like that's just an insane reality for a lot of people and for with Dennis we're so casual we're just like oh I max out my ISA just a bit unsure what to do next or sometimes it's like max out my ISA max out my pension um where does the money go now you know what I mean and it's like they're they're you know I say this in an ISP sometimes they're like oh my god I don't know what to do and I'm like well that's great but if we actually step back here you're crushing it from your ISA alone you're gonna be a millionaire when you're 50 right like and like uh a lot of people just aren't in that position right so dentists have made the pie bigger without realizing they've actually done this without necessarily even realizing right because we don't really have context so good outside of our own lives right but if you think about it if we focus on things that will generate us income whether that be our dentistry or whether that be our assets that actually makes the pie bigger and you potentially have enough for both not as easy to do not as easy to do it's completely precluded on the pie staying the same size I like that I like that I I it it's such a weird weird way of thinking that that is sadly how we all think we just think it's just like this constant isn't it but the truth is yeah geez the pie made it simple the pie made it simple by the way I just made that up the pie thing it kind of worked I just I just I was just like hey it's kind of like a pie you know I knew that I obviously I I knew the kind of philosophy behind it but I was like I'm I'm gonna take this pie thing and run with it and it actually Oh yeah I think you're gonna make a full full episode on just in a pie yeah I like it that's that's a good idea that I for me it's kind of like I'm almost at this weird junction because because if I had done this say when I was you know 23 24 finished uni done foundation year like I feel like I could almost do that I'm I'm constantly playing playing this game in my head where I'm like you got 20 years of catching up to do quick so that you could be at the same level as these dentists that are actually coming out of universities you know in in I want to be finished in 2027 for example right so I'm always thinking like what can I do what can I do what can I do I want to enjoy life but I don't want to have no money when I'm old and I ain't got much time to work before the back gives out and the eyes fail me and all the rest of it.

Naveed, 31m 24s:

So I'm constantly thinking what do I do what do I do so so my game plan is completely different and I and this is why I I like you know obviously reading into your stuff that you send uh through emails and whatnot and then obviously speaking to you directly is is is is like a blessing. In my shoes what would you say without obviously giving away too much maybe I don't know I don't know how you want to switch it but yeah yeah like go there but you you tell me like what what what yeah like because okay I'll I'll give you my perspective on things right so it in a best case scenario I'll walk you through it very quickly 2027 I'll finish university right I'll come back to the UK I'll be on a PLVE so not the normal UK foundation training still end up with a performer number but in that year uh base income on NHS work alone is between 55 and 60k this is all pre-tax yeah plus any private work you do on top but you're hardly going to get any of that any first year anyway let's just say you go in and you've got 60k pre-tax after that my my idea is to just kind of get down to mixed practice as quick as possible. So go from the 100% NHS down to at least 5050 within first say three to four years. And then beyond that I think the character that I am and I and I completely appreciate anyone listening that yes I'm a student and you're probably thinking this guy's talking all this that and the other when it comes down to reality you're not gonna do any of this fine I completely appreciate that at all as things go on the game plan I I hope so but I'm just saying for those that that are listening I I know a lot of people do tend to say oh you ain't gonna know till you're there and and I appreciate that I completely appreciate I'm not I'm not slagging those people off that's fine because but because there is some truth in that there might come a day you know in five years from now I'm like yeah screw this I'm not doing this right so um with with the mindset I've got right now uh that's what I would hope to do and then within the three to five years of practice I would love to open up my own clinic my own practice right that'd be I think it suits me as an individual it it uh tickles my fancy in terms of ownership management marketing business at the same time doing some sort of dentistry uh alongside it but then also it's the hybrid idea of having an asset that is a business that then I could later on probably sell off anyway and it should do all right in today's market right again now coming back to my situation in my shoes what would you say could be done to optimize that if anything uh what could you say should be adjusted so that we can we have a better game plan moving forward with the limited time because I'm not going to be 21 when I'm done I'm gonna be like 41 when I'm done. So what's your thoughts?

Dr James, 33m 51s:

Sure you know what it's a brilliant question and I have a very clear answer to that in my head. But before I say I just want to caveat what I'm about to say is that this is definitely not the right path for everyone how can I say this as well it's it's not if we're gonna set everything else aside like all debates and quandaries and what people uh how can I say this would have about you know viewing things through this lens that I'm about to espouse in just a second people people think that when you talk about the money side identity that you you can't it there's there's always going to be a trade-off when it comes to the ethics and morality side of it like they think it's like one or the other they think that those two things are juxtapositioned or uh opposing actually I think those things can can be the same they can be the same if you ask me right like if you're doing really high quality treatment that's gonna help someone so that their mouth is completely fully rehabilitated well you're just you're gonna help them to the high standard you possibly can plus you're gonna make money off the back of it right you're gonna make more money because you've given them more value right so I think that people uh there is a big belief out there that some people hold that they think that when you talk about the money side of dentistry or it's immediately against yeah it's just that you have to sacrifice ethics when you do that which is just not true if you ask me right so in that spirit proceeding on that foot what I would do if it was me is I wouldn't very first goal okay is to become shit hard at dentistry as an associate. Yeah right really good first priority is investment courses right to get you to that level right it's the clinical stuff but it's also how to communicate it too that's the side that people don't recognize how important it is. High gross and associate then you have cash flow then when you are the high gross and associate which is amazing then all of a sudden then you can start to invest in accounts invest in accounts yeah now if you want to be a high grossing associate and continue at that level forever fine you'll probably have a great life and you'll be able to put that that's a great way to be there's lots of people that I see who are like 35 and millionaires through doing that. Fine you know because they put their money in an ISA or some of them got lucky with Bitcoin and stuff like that. You know it's it's possible like it is completely possible right and that's a nice life right and then if someone wants to as you say open a dental practice because they want to have a lifestyle where it's associate led easier said than done it's not easy to do. It is definitely really hard right but um it it at least you have some skin in the game for that possible reality you have to open a dental practice right like you have to take on the risk I guess basically then what the fact that you're not a high gross an associate means that you're when you're working in your dental practice and your dental practice needs the lifeblood of business which is cash that you can step in and do that quite well you can also have the cash flow to get good team members you also have the cash flow to get good associates as well and pay them high margins to keep them in place and invest in the dental practice and then eventually you can hopefully get it to the stage where it runs itself a little bit more. And in order to do that I would then the next level is investing in the skills of business the business of dentistry. And the things that knowing how dentistry works from a business perspective but also knowing little random things that people don't know like meta ads and stuff like that. Like some of the some of the principals typically out there are killing it know how meta ads work because they went and learned how to do it. Or like Google PPC and stuff like that. I don't even know how PPC works right I don't know how Google works I've never used it right but I would consider myself okay at meta ads um they can be very good they can be very useful. I think that's a key skill for business right there very clever Mark Zuckerberg right he made this thing that's not like a cornerstone of everybody's business right like if you want to elevate your business you have to use his business and that's why he's so clever right um so anyway where were we so that would be that would be the the roadmap for me basically now don't get me wrong those are just things to aim for easier said than done right but that is in my head people might agree with me they might disagree with me I'm I'm speaking from the heart that's what I think and if we're looking at it purely from the point of view of finances for me that's the quickest path that I observed I did myself in part uh and then since having a million billion training conversations with other dentists who've done these sorts of things over the years you pick up even more things you know what I mean uh so yeah that's the route right there high gross and associate and everything flows from there.

Naveed, 38m 49s:

And by the way or just do high gross and associate. Oh see this now you're gonna really get in trouble right because people You said it you said you said 35 million there and all of a sudden me and everyone else went right screw the practice I'm doing this.

Dr James, 39m 4s:

Well you can listen as an a you know um if you're earning really well as an associate and you just compound your money in an ISA with some Bitcoin it's not it's it it can happen right listen I'm not saying everybody should buy Bitcoin I'm definitely not saying that I'm just saying that that's an example of a method some people have used. You could probably just use your ISA or your pension and be a millionaire if you have really high cash flow and reinvest it all into some sort of global equities fund that does well and you have a few lucky years. You know what I mean? I'm not everything I say is not financial advice just want to say that again on this podcast you know I'm just I'm just talking about possible methods uh just get them a little disclaimer in there.

Naveed, 39m 42s:

But yes anyway um yeah they you don't even necessarily have to be a high grossman associate to do that it just helps right it's all I'm saying is that if you stack all these things that I've just talked about you're giving yourself the greatest chance possible that's all I'm saying right you don't have to do all of them maybe you just do some of them or one or two of them right and you can probably do quite well but I really I'm actually really glad you asked me that question because I've never said that before in a podcast like what do you know what I I I always feel like you know when when people come on not just not just on you know your side of things but just generally everything everything just seems so red tape man like people just don't want to talk about real life stuff. Because I'm not saying you I mean you you you've come out and quite clearly just given us uh a good example non-financial uh information or advice here again uh just disclaimer but I think people always get worried to A ask the question because they don't want to be perceived as a certain person yeah and B the host doesn't want to ever say anything because they say well I don't want to cross the limits here but we need that I think the layman and and the people that are listening and I think myself included we just we we come on these things we listen to these things we actually want advice we want info right we're not just sitting there trying to listen to things we listen to nonstop we can find on TikTok people just saying things within the limits. We need that little bit of a push a little bit of advice a little bit of a uh you know recommendation or a suggestion without being forced or coerced into it and that in itself can actually start the journey into success because unless we get it from someone else it's usually we I don't think it catalyzes the process enough does it so I I want to say on my behalf and probably on behalf of everyone listening thank you for being honest thank you for uh having an opinion and and not just sitting on the fence and saying screw it I'm gonna give the the the playbook answer that everyone else gives and be diplomatic about this because I think we've had enough of it and and and we need more voices like yourself that are a bit unapologetic and and come from experience that actually trying to help people out because we don't have enough of that.

Dr James, 41m 41s:

So so seriously thanks man really really appreciate that well listen that's really kind you know and thank you for that I think that when you kind of just tell the real of what's out there that I can I say this because there's so much crap and like scammy stuff right that it's there's potential that you can be tarred with that brush as well. Yeah and that's definitely not I'm that's the part the point of dentist who invest is to say right okay there are some people out there who've done really well like you can't you can't deny that like they exist right so what have they done? That's all we're doing. We're documenting that right and if you know it exists there must be a way so if you're cynical about every single method that you hear perhaps you're tarring some of the really good stuff with the same brush right but that it kind of circles back to what I was saying earlier. That's why having some knowledge and how money works really helps because you can tell what's real and what isn't real right and what came out of my mouth just then is like the realest real that's that's what I've how I've met these people and spoke to them and done this stuff to a degree myself as well that that for me that is the best method and if I could go if I could go back okay you want to know definitively that this is how much I believe and what in what I said in Dennis and Vest and what I do if I could go back and tell myself when I was 25 right and go to like the pub with that guy and tell himself over some evenings right I'd be like right this is the roadmap just do these things you might even understand what these things are right now or you might you might know what they are but you don't we don't fully have the same concepts as to what they are but just keep this put it on your wall and just figure out what this stuff means and this is the map right here.

Naveed, 43m 29s:

That's genuine what I would say God strike me down that's amazing man honestly I and the thing is this is this is a perfect way to actually circle back as you said to that first point you know retiring at 21 and we discussed can you do it and maintain it and I think it's so important that having knowledge and as you quite rightly said having the experience of making the money and then using it and then losing it and then rebuilding it these are such important factors to have if you actually want to be wealthy and I I and you know Again, getting that information from the likes yourself and personal experience. I think being being too, for example, investing in your eyes that too early is a bad thing. I think being rich too early, in my opinion, can be a bad thing as well. If you don't have the right people around you, the right experiences, etc. So, you know, getting getting that kind of insight from you then circling back to the beginning, I think that's that's a that's such a beautiful way of like rounding things off in it.